Should the nation pay higher insurance for the disasters of a few?

[Dixie]

It's not just cars. Forgoing storm insurance is a growing trend in FL due to skyrocketing rates. I couldn't sleep with such a large financial exposure, but many are happy to do so.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Ohio requires that I insure people and property that I might cause a loss to when I'm driving my car.
The state does not require that I insure my car.
If I were to self-insure for liability I expect the government would require that I show my ability to cover million dollar medical bills.

One thing I have never understood is why each if my cars needs liability insurance. The car isn't responsible for my driving.

I think I can answer that. For one, you have several cars and while you can only drive one at a time, others may drive one of your cars and you are insured under your policy, not necessarily theirs. And there could be a considerable difference in coverage amounts.

Also, cars occasionally can do damage without your doing. It could roll down hill if something broke, got hit and then hit something or someone, or caught fire.

They say that in a multiple rear end collision the last person to hit, or the person that hit a car which in turn hit another, pays the bills. IDT it always works out that way. That is OT to this thread, but I thought I'd mention it.

[dmcummins]

My home, car, and boat insurance have all doubled in the last 2-3 years. Flood insurance can only go up 18% a year so it does, and the cap is $250,000.

Had my first hurricane claim last year due to Ian. About $40,000 in damage, $10,000 deductible. I pay around $8,000-$9000 for home insurance so it won’t take them long to recover their money.

I’ve thought about going with liability only, my lot is worth more than my house as I live on a canal. If it doubles again I may self insure.

[greglepore]

I think State Farm is pulling your leg. Property/casualty rates should have little to no bearing on auto rates other than for comprehensive.

Gonna be unpopular here, but I've long railed against flood insurance that is subsidized federally and has allowed the building of million dollar mcmansions in areas such as the outer banks, where a hurricane is bound to clear 'em all out at some point. There's a reason that all the og homes on the Banks were one story cinder block bunkers...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by greglepore

I think State Farm is pulling your leg. Property/casualty rates should have little to no bearing on auto rates other than for comprehensive.

Gonna be unpopular here, but I've long railed against flood insurance that is subsidized federally and has allowed the building of million dollar mcmansions in areas such as the outer banks, where a hurricane is bound to clear 'em all out at some point. There's a reason that all the og homes on the Banks were one story cinder block bunkers...

When I was a kid ... the outer banks were for the most part devoid of anything but "shacks" and difficult to get to ... paradise . It's not hurricanes ... those barrier strips of land are transient .... always have been .... always will be. I'm nowhere near the coast .... my rates have skyrocketed... "they" say I am .

I self insure a LOT .... but not everything. I extend my primary home owner's policy liability coverage to other properties for a modest amount, and my mint Carrera isn't even covered right now.

Never filed a claim in my life .... with what I have saved in pi$$ing away ins. premiums, I'll just pay for any loss.... and still be ahead.

My buddy had three houses insured with USAA ... one near Richmond (where he has collected on storm claims) and two in Fl (never a claim). A few years back ... USAA told him they would only insure one .... pick one.
Ins. is a racket ...

Liability and medical ... where the sky is the limit on your exposure .... those I insure. Houses, cars, and things I can absorb the loss on... I don't anymore ... ymmv.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by gh85carrera

anyone that has no insurance is already self insured. That is why they drive a pos car that they can just walk away from it and no major loss.

snip

according to hagerty, my toy car is getting crazy expensive. I have agreed value insurance on it to cover a loss as i can't afford to just write off that much money if it was stolen or totaled. Self insured is not practical for me.

+1

[Tobra]

How do you folks think insurance works?

[1990C4S]

The cost of random catastrophic weather events of the '100 year' variety should be borne by everyone. People who stay in high-risk areas should cover their own cost. If you buy a house on a flood plain, don't ask me to help cover your costs when the floods come.

I would be happy in insurance companies just properly apportioned the cost of stolen vehicles. People who choose to buy a car that takes 30 seconds to steal should bear the cost.

Or insurance companies could just refuse to offer theft insurance on certain models.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Anyone that has no insurance is already self insured. That is why they drive a POS car that they can just walk away from it and no major loss.

According to Hagerty, my toy car is getting crazy expensive. I have agreed value insurance on it to cover a loss as I can't afford to just write off that much money if it was stolen or totaled. Self insured is not practical for me.

As far I know - every state has laws that require vehicle owners to carry some form of insurance....so self-insuring vehicles is NOT an option.

Real estate is a whole different matter. As long as you don't have a mortgage, I believe you can self-insure. Otherwise you are required to carry homeowner's insurance.

[Baz]

BTW....I had group health insurance for 10 years.........and only one time did I need some doctoring. The idiot neighbor lady ran over my cat and I was taking him to the emergency vet when he bit me. Wasn't his fault - he was scared. He died on the way...very sad.

So anyway - I ended up having to pay out of pocket for an antibiotic and bandage.

Medical insurance was a bi-monthly deduction so I didn't really miss it per se but 10 years with zero paid claims....sheesh....

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Baz

As far I know - every state has laws that require vehicle owners to carry some form of insurance....so self-insuring vehicles is NOT an option.
.....

That requirement is liabilty coverage for damages done to others... not your own vehicles.

If my Carrera gets stolen or goes up in smoke .... I'm just SOL. I haven't covered most of my own vehicles in decades.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Baz

As far I know - every state has laws that require vehicle owners to carry some form of insurance....so self-insuring vehicles is NOT an option.

The problem is it's not enforced which is why everyone else has to pay for underinsured and uninsured..

I got rear ended once. I quickly grabbed a pen and paper to write down a plate number. By the time I'd gotten out of the car they were long gone. Pretty sure he was uninsured or perhaps in the country illegally (this was Arizona).

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by Baz

BTW....I had group health insurance for 10 years.........and only one time did I need some doctoring. The idiot neighbor lady ran over my cat and I was taking him to the emergency vet when he bit me. Wasn't his fault - he was scared. He died on the way...very sad.

So anyway - I ended up having to pay out of pocket for an antibiotic and bandage.

Medical insurance was a bi-monthly deduction so I didn't really miss it per se but 10 years with zero paid claims....sheesh....

Virginia is weird, you can drive without insurance so long as you pay a $500 "penalty" on your registration. So those that should most have insurance, the multiple accident dolts, might find the penalty cheaper than insurance, and are likely asset free enough that an atty wouldn't pursue them.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Baz

As far I know - every state has laws that require vehicle owners to carry some form of insurance....so self-insuring vehicles is NOT an option.

Real estate is a whole different matter. As long as you don't have a mortgage, I believe you can self-insure. Otherwise you are required to carry homeowner's insurance.

Yea, and yet the 1 in 8 are uninsured as an average. 20% in Florida.

https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/uninsured-motorist-statistics/

[jyl]

Auto insurance is going up because of the cost of repairs and “social inflation” i.e. higher liability payouts.

The insurance industry goes through soft and hard market cycles. Soft is when there is too much capital trying to insure risk, competition brings premiums down, insurers lose money on insurance and try to make it back by investing premiums. Hard is when capital has left, and the remaining players can raise rates.

Different parts of the industry have different cycles: auto, home, property and casualty, insurance, workers comp, directors and officers, etc. Life, disability, and medical insurance are a different animal.

Climate change has been a big factor, as insurers have been hit with more natural disaster (“catastrophe”) claims than their historical-based underwriting expected. Re-insurers in particular had some very unprofitable years, and are busy raising rates by a lot.

Part of the insurance industry, in particular property and casualty, and reinsurance, is in a hard market currently. So they are making underwriting profits again, and rising interest rates mean they are making larger investment profits too. Insurance is pretty non-discretionary, whether consumers and businesses are doing well or poorly, they still need to have insurance.

I started buying selected insurance stocks about 2 years ago and they’ve been pretty decent. ACGL CB EG. After the peak of Atlantic hurricane season passed, I bought more. Re-insurers - at least the ones I look at - will see most of their claims from hurricane season. If they can get through that few month period without a monster hurricane in Miami or suchlike, then they get to enjoy premiums with relatively less claim exposure the rest of the year. I “think” that happened this year, though 3Q reports are still coming in. 2023 was a big natural disaster year, but a lot of the losses probably aren’t insured losses (earthquakes in Morocco, flooding in China, etc). I am not sure if the Alcapulco hurricane was a big insured loss - I sure hope not, or that the companies I chose didn’t do much business there.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2023/10/20/745036.htm

There’s stories about areas of FL and the Atlantic coast where homeowner’s insurance is
prohibitively expensive. I wonder if it’s practical to “hurricane-proof” a house instead of paying giant premiums.

[KFC911]

^^^ Thanks John! I went "liability only" on my older investment houses when the rates skyrocketed several years ago, and then the underwriters wouldn't even let Amica insure them .... period. That's what happened to my buddy ... USAA said "only one house now... pick one" .... he'd been with them forever too.

[Dixie]

Originally Posted by jyl

(snip) I wonder if it’s practical to “hurricane-proof” a house instead of paying giant premiums.

The Cape Romano Dome House, built in 1982, was an attempt at building a hurricane proof house. Rising seas, erosion, and hurricane Ian, did it in.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by KC911

If my Carrera gets stolen or goes up in smoke .... I'm just SOL. I haven't covered most of my own vehicles in decades.

I insure my car cars. With a Speedster, 911, a fully restored antique truck. and a newly remodeled VW a not-insignificant part of my net worth is wrapped up in rolling stock.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Tobra

How do you folks think insurance works?

You pay premiums for years and years.
You back into a rock and bang up your rear bumper.
The body shop says it'll be $1800.
Insurance company says $1500.
They argue for two weeks while your car sits in the shop with no bumper.
The body shop says pay us the extra $300 plus the the $500 deductible or come get your car.
You pay them $800.
Insurance Co. raises your rates and expects you to be happy to continue to pay premiums.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I insure my car cars. With a Speedster, 911, a fully restored antique truck. and a newly remodeled VW a not-insignificant part of my net worth is wrapped up in rolling stock.

Makes perfect cents ! If I had a collection of car$ under a single roof ... I'd do likewise. In my case, my egg$ have never been in one basket ... writing off (absorbing the loss) on a single house or car .... meh... I've lost a lot more in equities before.

I have had my Carrera insured before (agreed value) .... but not even remotely close to what she's worth now ....

But 35K would buy me a bigly azz beer to cry in if she went "poof... gone!"

That was some time back ...