Good car to drive across country

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stealthn

My 610 HP Turbo got under 9l/100Km on road trips, around 28 MPG, I thought that was pretty good.

Considering my '08 boxster S gets about 21.5mpg on my commute (99% interstate in light traffic), I'd say 28mpg was pretty impressive.

I suspect I could push the boxster to 23mpg (what it's rated for) by driving SLOW and keeping my foot out of it if I didn't die of boredom first.

[Zeke]

I was trained by the manual that GM produced for the dealers in 1999. It was done with the aid of some of the best sales people and psychologists. It does work.

I didn't work at a super high volume dealer and neither did you, Denis. I led the board the first month I was out of the 2 weeks of training. It was not a TO shop so I had to put a customer on a car and negotiate/close the deal in my own booth.

You may have worked differently and while you were at Porsche, that method was likely not the way you worked. Different levels of sales require different approaches. All I know is that most auto sales folks work similar while the Rolls Royce guys need to understand THEIR customers. Most of mine had a credit score of 650. So while they wanted a luxury car (as far as they understood luxury) they needed what they needed and could be put in.

That's how it works out on the line or you go to the unemployment line. Once fired from a dealer, you're done, unless you want to sell used cars in the ghetto. By contrast, if you are top producer week after week, you are underemployed and need to move up..

I used my training more in home improvement sales setting about 100 two-hour appt's per year. As I was selling for myself, I was limited to selling what I could install. Otherwise I would have had 600 to 700 appt's a year. 60% close rate is the cut off. Don't produce that and you're gone.

BTW, if I was making negative vibes then obviously I learned nothing from GM training. GM spent millions on the program. Films, sessions, tests; all to take advantage of decades of dealer operations and experience condensed so that someone could actually manipulate a customer while making them feel good about the whole deal. That should read 'guide' rather than manipulate but let's call if what it is.

If anyone was going to make it less than a cake walk, it was the F and I guy. Those guys have ice water in their veins. Yet I got compliments from the F&I office.

Why did I quit? The F&I office. Dirty low handed cheats. Most sales managers were not far behind.

Let me give you a taste of 'manipulate'. I walk into a home and asses the sale; what are they after? Next move them to their kitchen table and sit them next to each other and across from you. Never do a one legger (spouse not present). If you end up sitting in the living room you might as well fold up and leave. The kitchen table is informal and where most families do business when more than one is agreeing on a decision. There are exceptions — recognizing exceptions and turning them into your favor is where experience and talent come in.

Lastly, one in say 12 is just not your person. Once you have sized them up and realize the deck is stacked, you cut your loses and fold up. Politely.

I worked in phone sales at Pelican one summer. I did well. Pelican was not for me however. Leave it at that. I'm done selling. I sold one way or another for 50 years straight.

[speeder]

I’ve actually been in sales beyond working at the Porsche dealer, including other makes of cars. I agree about the F&I department and general culture of auto sales but I was lucky to work in some better places. Sales in general as a field of study is very interesting, for sure.

[Zeke]

Speaking of going to a dealer, I have been in Circle Porsche in Long Beach quite a few times. A couple of times I was actually looking at cars so I have met 3-4 of the people that worked there in sales at that time.

Yeah, no questions, no qualifying, not even a lot of interest that a potential customer is in the showroom. Quite the opposite of working outside on the line. And this was a few years ago before Porsches became harder to buy new.

The irony is that I'm sure these folks were very good at sales having worked their way up to land a job at Porsche. And then they just totally relax and act like they don't care if you buy a car or not. If not you, the next guy or the next guy after him will. The ol' boy that was there forever spent more time with my wife and I telling us about how painful his back was. He was loaded on pills.

What a luxury job that seems to be. However, I'm dead sure they work hard in the background and not that many sales result from a walk-in. They know the percentages. And I'm sure they don't stop selling when the showroom shift is over. They are out and about in the community that has the wherewithal to buy Porsches.

Much different approach at the office, indeed. But even the successful Chevy salesperson does not limit their time to showroom/lot duty. We were told to join every organization we could and get your card out at the gym or dog park.

I'm not sure any hard work like this is stupid in any way whatsoever. Someone comes in and asks about mileage you don't start talking up the leather. Calling me stupid seems a little short sighted.

[Alan A]

Car salesmen are funny AF.

I mostly buy European - apart from trucks - but I’ve had a few Japanese.

What’s interesting is it is almost universal that the ****tier the brand the sleazier the salesman. The Toyota dealer tries crap (slow walk to the sales manager and try to make you wait) that the Audi dealer wouldn’t even think of pulling.

I guess brands are FICO ranged and it’s a substitute for IQ?

[herr_oberst]

This one. Last week I drove from the Bonneville Dam on the Columbia river to the Bonneville Salt Flats and back, with some other stops along the way. 1800 miles, and it didn't miss a beat. It's a '92 with 175000 miles on the clock. A bike in the back for some gravel adventure rides for my mental and physical health.

[Alan A]

This thread is a microcosm of forums.

OP - I want a new comfy car for a trip to keep the wife happy. I’m trying to decide between these two.

Respondents - New cars cost $. I’d never own a new car so why would you. Buy an old truck. Those cars need premium it might cost you more in gas. I used to sell cars.

OP - what did you get?

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Alan A

OP - what did you get?

Of course, whatever his wife wanted.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Of course, whatever his wife wanted.

If he’s smart. But you never know.
I’m not a panamera fan - they drive like a bus imo - so I’m genuinely curious what he ended up with.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Alan A

This thread is a microcosm of forums.

OP - I want a new comfy car for a trip to keep the wife happy. I’m trying to decide between these two.

Respondents - New cars cost $. I’d never own a new car so why would you. Buy an old truck. Those cars need premium it might cost you more in gas. I used to sell cars.
......

To be fair to the OP, I think most of us let the thread steep and simmer for a few days before we started to add to the mix. The folks here who can easily afford the cars he wants are in the minority, I think. There's a few of them, they chimed in, expressed an opinion, but now the thread belongs to the peanut gallery (and the ages)

[flipper35]

I'll be the odd man out. We love the minivan for the four of us going cross country. Our last round trip from SW WI to St. Croix Maine we averaged over 30mpg, even with the construction. We would have been close to 32 otherwise.

They ride nice, excellent use of space, comfy, easy to maneuver, decent power (ours has just shy of 300hp and 3500# towing capacity) plus an excellent view of the road. Ours is a limited with dual pane glass and is very quiet inside.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Alan A

This thread is a microcosm of forums.

OP - I want a new comfy car for a trip to keep the wife happy. I’m trying to decide between these two.

Respondents - New cars cost $. I’d never own a new car so why would you. Buy an old truck. Those cars need premium it might cost you more in gas. I used to sell cars.

OP - what did you get?

You’re right, it did sort of take a left turn at some point. There is a funny meme with a flow chart for internet chats like this.

[fintstone]

The posts about buying/selling a car are lost on me. I always know exactly what car (make, model, year, color) I want to buy (new or used). If new, I simply wait for a dealer to get one like I want and go down and tell them I want to buy it and this is what I will pay. If they annoy me too much or cannot make the deal, I just go home. I don't even go to the local car lots before I am ready to buy during business hours...so I don't have to talk to them. I go by in the evening or on Sunday when they are closed and take a look. If I go there during business hours...I am ready to buy and just need to close the deal.

Although we used to buy old cars as targets of opportunity (that we drove past), I have bought most of my current crop of cars slightly used...all over the internet. I found what I wanted and told the seller what I would pay if the car was as represented. If they agreed, I flew out with the money and drove the car back.

When I was around 20, My wife and I saved up the money to buy our first new car off the lot. Much of it was a reenlistment bonus...as my wife was not working and had just landed a job.) The car was a new Triumph TR8. I had convinced the wife it was just what we needed. We drove down to buy it. When we arrived, a salesman came out, sized us up, and sneered at my nice, mostly restored '65 Mustang parked on the street on the far side of the lot (I had been driving it for many years and put a lot of work into it). He told me he hoped I was not planning to trade that piece of junk in. I was not planning on trading as it would have become our second car, but I was pretty annoyed at him insulting my "classic."

Then he tried to direct us away from the car we were planning to buy...to some lesser cars because "we could not afford the nice cars on that side of the lot." That was it. We got into our "piece of junk" and drove away. We kept the '65 Mustang and bought a new house that we still own (used the car money as a down payment). It is now a long paid-off rental. We never went back to that dealer.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by fintstone

The posts about buying/selling a car are lost on me. I always know exactly what car (make, model, year, color) I want to buy (new or used). If new, I simply wait for a dealer to get one like I want and go down and tell them I want to buy it and this is what I will pay. If they annoy me too much or cannot make the deal, I just go home. I don't even go to the local car lots before I am ready to buy during business hours...so I don't have to talk to them. I go by in the evening or on Sunday when they are closed and take a look. If I go there during business hours...I am ready to buy and just need to close the deal.

Although we used to buy old cars as targets of opportunity (that we drove past), I have bought most of my current crop of cars slightly used...all over the internet. I found what I wanted and told the seller what I would pay if the car was as represented. If they agreed, I flew out with the money and drove the car back.

When I was around 20, My wife and I saved up the money to buy our first new car off the lot. Much of it was a reenlistment bonus...as my wife was not working and had just landed a job.) The car was a new Triumph TR8. I had convinced the wife it was just what we needed. We drove down to buy it. When we arrived, a salesman came out, sized us up, and sneered at my nice, mostly restored '65 Mustang parked on the street on the far side of the lot (I had been driving it for many years and put a lot of work into it). He told me he hoped I was not planning to trade that piece of junk in. I was not planning on trading as it would have become our second car, but I was pretty annoyed at him insulting my "classic."

Then he tried to direct us away from the car we were planning to buy...to some lesser cars because "we could not afford the nice cars on that side of the lot." That was it. We got into our "piece of junk" and drove away. We kept the '65 Mustang and bought a new house that we still own (used the car money as a down payment). It is now a long paid-off rental. We never went back to that dealer.

Lots of car sales stories and some of them are true. The classic one that goes around is about the guy in shabby or farm clothes that is carrying a bag and looks at a new car. The salespeople don't respond kindly (that in itself produces many variants on the story), but one guy does. The customer finds a car they like and pour the cash out of the bag.

It's a sales tale for sure, but it certainly has happened a few times.

[fintstone]

Never have liked salesmen/car sales and the “secret” real price…that could well be much less than they are offering you.

I told my older brother about negotiating a deal on a car once and he told me that when he goes on the lot, he tells the salesman that he is a wealthy lawyer and price is really not an object. He only buys new, high-end cars. He had no idea that he actually paid about $10k more for the same car. I did not tell him either.

[KRLocke]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Well, you are driving their cars and taking their time. They will pressure you so just politely decline for whatever reason, accept their card and move on. They will normally want some ID so I'd cooperate. At the same time it is easy for them to collect your contact info. Fine, either misspell your email or give them a Google number you sign up for. It's free and very handy. I've had no problems with a GN.

The more negative vibes you give off the worse the experience. If you want to take a ride, take them for a ride. When you're done, you're done. Tell them you didn't like the car and you don't want to look at another.

Tell them that it took longer than you expected and you need to pick someone up. There are a million excuses. If they think they can contact you later, the will let you go easier.

Don't talk trade in and avoid letting them know what car you have. If they see it say it's going to a relative. That way they know you are a buyer. but you really aren't at the time. They don't know that.

If you ask a bunch of technical questions expect their eyes to glaze over. So do your own homework. They will try and put you on a personality type, cautious, a doer, a negotiator, and undecided. Different training uses different profiles and definitions. It all works out about the same. Some customers are a bit of 2 profiles. Just be aware that they are trying to place you on one. They ask a lot of leading questions. Answer with questions of your own. Do not engage with a 2nd salesperson. You don't need to be 'closed on' if you're not the slightest committed.

It's a fun game and you get to drive cool cars. If you aren't prepared, they will make life miserable until you buy or leave in a huff. Doesn't need to be like that. You might be back to buy a car. Buy the car, not the dealer.

Thank you, interesting perspective. I mean no disrespect but does anyone else envision a 1940s government educational short film when reading this?

[KRLocke]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

This one. Last week I drove from the Bonneville Dam on the Columbia river to the Bonneville Salt Flats and back, with some other stops along the way. 1800 miles, and it didn't miss a beat. It's a '92 with 175000 miles on the clock. A bike in the back for some gravel adventure rides for my mental and physical health.

What took you to the Flats?

[KRLocke]

Originally Posted by Alan A

This thread is a microcosm of forums.

OP - I want a new comfy car for a trip to keep the wife happy. I’m trying to decide between these two.

Respondents - New cars cost $. I’d never own a new car so why would you. Buy an old truck. Those cars need premium it might cost you more in gas. I used to sell cars.

OP - what did you get?

Thank you for expressing my sentiments on some of the posts, I didn't want to appear to rude. My wife got a kick out of the success shaming ones, if they only knew where we started and how hard we both worked, but that's another story.

[Alan A]

So - Panny or Audi?

I already said I thought the Porker drove like a bus. Owned an A8 (the 4.0 one with a little more oomph) and it drove smaller than its size, so I’m guessing the 7 is the same. Unreliable AF but a fabulous GT car when it was working.

[KRLocke]

Short story short, the Panamera won the day. We are on the edge/past the edge for a build order right now and are making a decision this week on next steps.