Any information about the Pacific Palisades Fire

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by techweenie

https://www.perimeter-solutions.com/en/

Exactly something like that. I wonder how logistically viable it would be to load up tanker trucks with a fire suppressing foam and to drive down a street with a cannon, hosing down each house? I’m sure it’s way more expensive than water…

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Exactly something like that. I wonder how logistically viable it would be to load up tanker trucks with a fire suppressing foam and to drive down a street with a cannon, hosing down each house? I’m sure it’s way more expensive than water…

In a city where a "teardown" is a million bucks, the ROI may make sense.

[Crowbob]

There is no excuse for it.

Simply because the fire was so horrific is no excuse for not having every single resource available to fight it.

And yes, the postmortem is gonna be colored by political interests. To wit (no pun intended): Gavin Newsome.

This is yet another example of government failing The People. If those poor people rebuild, it should be stipulated that it is at their own risk instead of implying the political leadership has the competence to protect them. The reality is The People in this nation are on their own and probably have been for at least half a century.

[Scott Douglas]

The people who are really to blame are the developers that put those houses up in the first place.
Who in their right mind, puts houses so close together that you can't get in between them to fight a fire?
And for all those thinking it's Gavin's fault have never had a blaze going that is more than a campfire.
Do you people really think the populace is going to pay for infrastructure that is built to handle the worst case scenario when building a neighborhood like Pacific Palisades?
No, they won't because they'll say it'll never happen.

As for the fire hydrants running dry, What the hell do you expect when they're being taxed at a rate they weren't designed for?

As for the reservoir being repaired, again, who was going to step up and pay for the repair of the cover?

For a solution on how to rebuild I suggest the city look south to how San Diego handled their last fire and the reg's they've put in to prevent it from happening again.

[mtnrat]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

The people who are really to blame are the developers that put those houses up in the first place.
Who in their right mind, puts houses so close together that you can't get in between them to fight a fire?
And for all those thinking it's Gavin's fault have never had a blaze going that is more than a campfire.
Do you people really think the populace is going to pay for infrastructure that is built to handle the worst case scenario when building a neighborhood like Pacific Palisades?
No, they won't because they'll say it'll never happen.

As for the fire hydrants running dry, What the hell do you expect when they're being taxed at a rate they weren't designed for?

As for the reservoir being repaired, again, who was going to step up and pay for the repair of the cover?

For a solution on how to rebuild I suggest the city look south to how San Diego handled their last fire and the reg's they've put in to prevent it from happening again.

Yea, all $113,000 of it. No way that could be put in the budget. Take a year to go through the process and still not get it fixed.

[red 928]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

The people who are really to blame are the developers that put those houses up in the first place.
Who in their right mind, puts houses so close together that you can't get in between them to fight a fire?

Developers don't build anything that someone won't buy.

There is (was) a high demand for very expensive (exclusive)
large homes build on tiny lots on the side of hills
in high fire danger areas.
They are (were) in high demand because fire insurance was relatively
cheap and available, especially considering the risk.

The developers are in business to supply what the market demands.
Buyers demand what they supply, only because the
market has been manipulated by the insurance commissioner.

If the free market had been allowed to work
(which it always does if let to it's design)
homeowner's insurance in those areas
would be unobtainable or at least cost-prohibitive
unless the structures were proven to be fire-resistant.
Lower the risk, lower the cost.
No insurance, no mortgage, no flammable homes built on top
of a tinder box.

But none of that happened.
The insurance companies were not allowed to manage
or mitigate the risk.
The "free" market was not allowed equilibrium.
It was artificially manipulated and not able to be effective
in this case.
So all hell broke loose.
Who could have seen that coming?

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

There is no excuse for it.

Simply because the fire was so horrific is no excuse for not having every single resource available to fight it.

And yes, the postmortem is gonna be colored by political interests. To wit (no pun intended): Gavin Newsome.

This is yet another example of government failing The People. If those poor people rebuild, it should be stipulated that it is at their own risk instead of implying the political leadership has the competence to protect them. The reality is The People in this nation are on their own and probably have been for at least half a century.

^this^


Would 117 million gallons have made a difference? Unless you have the dain bramage, answer is yes. It is criminal that they drained Santa Ynez for a year before they started looking for bids to repair the cover. It is almost certainly not necessary for it to sit empty while waiting.

The mismanagement of resources in California is so bad it is hard to believe it is not willful. They stopped doing any fire mitigation when I was a kid. They stopped adding water storage prior to that. Anyone who can look at how badly California takes care of business, and thinks they are doing a decent job, has something wrong with them.

Making excuses does not make things better, it makes things worse. Unless the people of this state can figure that out, this place is doomed.

[group911@aol.co]

There is no amount of water in any system that can stop a wind driven fire.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Tobra

^this^


Would 117 million gallons have made a difference? Unless you have the dain bramage, answer is yes. It is criminal that they drained Santa Ynez for a year before they started looking for bids to repair the cover. It is almost certainly not necessary for it to sit empty while waiting.

The mismanagement of resources in California is so bad it is hard to believe it is not willful. They stopped doing any fire mitigation when I was a kid. They stopped adding water storage prior to that. Anyone who can look at how badly California takes care of business, and thinks they are doing a decent job, has something wrong with them.

Making excuses does not make things better, it makes things worse. Unless the people of this state can figure that out, this place is doomed.

What do you know, do you live there??
OK, that’s supposed to be in green

The comment about the over building is dead on. Sadly, this is a problem all around the country, especially in Florida. Funny, my family background was heavily in land development, my Mother was the 1st female licensed Mortgage Broker in the state of Florida. I grew up around land development, even having a street named after me on a close family friend’s project. The difference is, back then, it wasn’t about stuffing a gazillion homes on a postage stamp. I have been very vocal in my community and the overbuilding, stated at council meetings, when it was brought up to add more homes, that there wasn’t space 1), 2), the town doesn’t have the room. In my small town, there literally is not many lots available to build more, so when some clowns talk about wanting to build more, I call them out. Those who know me, know that I’m the same person who post opinions here,no sugar coating. I have been personally invested in development projects, so I’m not speaking as an uninformed clown. But what I am seeing these days is, nothing but completely whoring out the dirt.
I even commented that we should sue the county commissioners because of the huge increase in traffic is having a major negative impact on our quality of life. I know, it’s not going to go anywhere, but at least it’s got people thinking, at least those capable of thinking.
I’ve been basically called an idiot here, accused of BS, because I call things as I see them. There has never been a doubt that the weather (wind) has been a major contributor, but, going back to the 70s, when this was a issue brought up on the TV show CHIP (and probably other before) there is NO excuse for not being better prepared, as it isn’t something that has never happened. Yes, the wind blowing hot timbers is a major part, but the fact that this has been happening for decades, should have people and the government, better prepared.
Yes, I posted the picture of 40 people arrested, I did not add content saying they were looters, nor did I get it from Fox News, but posted because it is happening out there. I have huge respect for the person who responded, but I only posted the news (not Fox) reported, nor did I say they were all looters. But, it is a fact of life, no matter where in the country you are, if you have a major disaster, there will be those who will try and take advantage of the situation, especially in a place that is very lenient on criminal activities.
And yes, after me calling out the local council members on the over building we are suffering from, I have been getting the cold shoulder.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

The people who are really to blame are the developers that put those houses up in the first place.

Developers can only build where the city/town/state allows them to build and can only build to the standards promulgated by those gov't entities as well.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

There is no amount of water in any system that can stop a wind driven fire.

Water seems to work everywhere but in CA. That is why aircraft dump water versus molasses on wildfires and why folks pray for rain when there are really big fires. Enough water will put out any fire (anywhere else).

They key is not to let them burn until they are out of control before you implement serious firefighting efforts and not to run out of water once you do.

Of course, prevention (reducing the amount of available fuel in advance) is always helpful.

[Racerbvd]

Hopefully it won’t get Jim Rockford’s trailer.


Also, those in the know, how did the homes directly on the ocean, across a multi lane highway, with the standards to build a house in that area,burn down?
Doesn’t the state have minimum requirements when building?? Just seems odd, that in area with so many building requirements, in a fire zone, even though there was a multi lane road, between the area the fire would reach and the homes on the ocean ,to burn, like they did, makes one wonder about the “Fire Proofing”that was supposedly done.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by speeder

.Edited.

I really do not know the area well, but why do all the photos/videos show it starting/growing/burning (along the Temescal Ridge Trail) in what is obviously undergrowth, scrub, and trees if that was not the case? Are the photos not accurate? Is the press misleading us?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

...Mind you, Jacksonville, Florida hasn’t had a major hurricane hit since Dora in 1964, but people still prepare when there is a hurricane coming though, buying all the damn toilet paper. ...

There was no flooding (since 1916) where I bought homes in NC, but I still bought where it was very unlikely to flood (not impacted by the smaller 1916 flood). I had no flooding, but did have trees blow over.

Yes, I have a large stash of toilet paper in each of my homes (purchased on sale in advance for emergencies). One would not want to survive a disaster and then have to commit suicide (or murder) after being stuck in a home with a female/s and unending complaints regarding no (or less than super soft) toilet paper. You can't have too much TP or ammo, as they are a great inflation hedge...and one can always use them for barter during the zombie apocalypse (or next "pandemic").

Better safe than sorry (in both cases).

[KFC911]

Dang ... just lost a long post...

Here ... whole subdivisions now exist in areas that I personally saw "become lakes within hours" in about 1970 ... from just heavy local storms.

Mother Nature will not forgive (nor forget)....

Wishing the best for all of you guys ... be safe!

[Seahawk]

Posts moved, not deleted, to PARF.

Best.

[Tobra]

Edited

They used to clear brush, do controlled burns and create fire breaks with bulldozers before stuff started the fires start. Ironically, if they continued the controlled burns, the thistle they are worried about would probably not have become endangered, because it relies on natural brush fires for its seeds to germinate, science, amirite. I have lived here most of my life and have seen the changes first hand. We used to manage things more like the natives did before we got here. Now flammable nebris is allowed to collect for years, decades, between fires. City and county supervisors aurhorize what gets built. They approve stuff to build up the tax base, then do not address infrastructure at all,using resources for this on other things, DEI maybe.

Water use here is something you could base your doctorate on. You will have to read on water rights somewhere else, far too much to cover. Levees in the Delta are way older than me and not well maintained, damage by the homeless has become a thing. Water is wasted on an incomprehensible scale. 500 year flood happens, and they drain all the reservoirs after it, in case it happens two years in a row. Drain a reservoir above a residential area vulnerable to fire for a year looking for bids to repair the cover, which is about the same price as the 2025 fully loaded F150 Velociraptor. Cover is to
slow evaporation, which is the only funny thing about this. Residential water use is a tiny portion of total, but where restrictions are focused. They flush water out the Delta to protect non-native species of fish. One small water storage project 55 years ago. Nothing else since the 1960's. Been a lot of planned projects to create water storage planned, 10 years ago there was one approved with billions of dollars of money and everything. I have done more digging planting citrus trees with my grandkids than has been done in all the water storage sites in the state of California in the last 50 years, unless you count the dams that have been removed. Pretty sure the population has doubled in that time, even with all the businesses leaving.

They did not start the fires, they just put the conditions in place for them to be catastrophic when they inevitably did start. Insulting me constantly does not make me wrong or feel stupid. It makes me feel sorry for you

Brush fires and forest fires have been a thing in California since before palefaces came here

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Posts moved, not deleted, to PARF.

Best.

Thank you, Paul!

[Baz]

Bill Maher has a question for California Governor Gavin Newsom and Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass ... why does it take a massive disaster for the state to cut red tape?!?

[group911@aol.co]

But I thought you were all about NO REGULATIONS??

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

What do you know, do you live there??
OK, that’s supposed to be in green

The comment about the over building is dead on. Sadly, this is a problem all around the country, especially in Florida. Funny, my family background was heavily in land development, my Mother was the 1st female licensed Mortgage Broker in the state of Florida. I grew up around land development, even having a street named after me on a close family friend’s project. The difference is, back then, it wasn’t about stuffing a gazillion homes on a postage stamp. I have been very vocal in my community and the overbuilding, stated at council meetings, when it was brought up to add more homes, that there wasn’t space 1), 2), the town doesn’t have the room. In my small town, there literally is not many lots available to build more, so when some clowns talk about wanting to build more, I call them out. Those who know me, know that I’m the same person who post opinions here,no sugar coating. I have been personally invested in development projects, so I’m not speaking as an uninformed clown. But what I am seeing these days is, nothing but completely whoring out the dirt.
I even commented that we should sue the county commissioners because of the huge increase in traffic is having a major negative impact on our quality of life. I know, it’s not going to go anywhere, but at least it’s got people thinking, at least those capable of thinking.
I’ve been basically called an idiot here, accused of BS, because I call things as I see them. There has never been a doubt that the weather (wind) has been a major contributor, but, going back to the 70s, when this was a issue brought up on the TV show CHIP (and probably other before) there is NO excuse for not being better prepared, as it isn’t something that has never happened. Yes, the wind blowing hot timbers is a major part, but the fact that this has been happening for decades, should have people and the government, better prepared.
Yes, I posted the picture of 40 people arrested, I did not add content saying they were looters, nor did I get it from Fox News, but posted because it is happening out there. I have huge respect for the person who responded, but I only posted the news (not Fox) reported, nor did I say they were all looters. But, it is a fact of life, no matter where in the country you are, if you have a major disaster, there will be those who will try and take advantage of the situation, especially in a place that is very lenient on criminal activities.
And yes, after me calling out the local council members on the over building we are suffering from, I have been getting the cold shoulder.