Any information about the Pacific Palisades Fire

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by speeder

Can you imagine people in CA. telling people in Kansas or Oklahoma that they really fk'ed up their tornado preparedness? Yeah, me neither.

To be fair, if we had a major tornado and the sirens didn’t go off, I would be screaming for our local leadership to face the gallows. We are all Americans and I hope that we all will hold our local and state leadership accountable for their failures.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

So you think they should keep a few hundred helicopters and their crews on standby 24/7? If not, how long do you think it takes to mobilize them? Most of the choppers carry about 2000 gallons of water. Looks good on video but pretty much nothing on a fast moving fire.

I'll simply defer this to my friend the retired Battalion Chief with CAL FIRE Air Attack who is currently LIVID that the leadership were so unprepared for this disaster, and leave it at that. He is so pissed off right now he cannot even speak.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

Not sure how to phrase it to get through to you. What's the magic number of rigs you envision to rush to the scene in minutes? 50, 100??? Haven't looked at their stations but I'll bet there weren't more than 10 pumpers within 15 miles. That's probably 20- 30 minutes of response time for the farthest one and then setup time. This fire grew faster than those first 10 and the next 30 could have stopped even if they'd had adequate water.
A fool would have run all those rigs to the top of the canyon straight into the fire.
To answer your question, the system was designed to provide sufficient water for normal firefighting needs. These were not normal firefighting conditions and no, you couldn't have designed a system to handle these conditions.
I'll say it again. You can't stop a wind driven fire here of "anywhere else in the world"!

If they arrive in 10 minutes, the amount of equipment is much less. If there are not enough that are close enough...that seems a planning problem (and a response time problem).

I hope that where I live, that the "system" is designed to fight the fire they encounter. I am not sure how one defines "normal firefighting conditions." In CA, those would seem to be lots of people to evacuate, looters to avoid, a shortage of firefighters, a shortage of equipment, high winds, massive amounts of dry brush, empty reservoirs, hydrants without water, and only starting after the fire has grown to cover many, many acres. Emergency (life or death) systems should be designed for worst case scenario versus typical.

If the fire department runs out of water fighting a fire, the system was not designed properly. I have to disagree. A wind driven fire can be stopped anywhere...if you have resources and stop it before it grows too big.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by schwarz633

Does this Santa Inez reservoir that everyone is talking about contain treated water that's fed directly into the distribution system, or does it need to be treated first? I'm in the Midwest, so I'm not familiar with this type of pond style reservoir in a municipal water system.

Judging by the what is being reported this was a regional reservoir for treated water. I am not absolutely sure as I am not familiar with the entire affected system, BUT what is being reported is that it was a covered reservoir, and the reservoir cover was the object of the repair. Also, I do not know the system layout, but judging by the reservoir location, that it is a covered reservoir and the lack of any "reported" downstream treatment facility, that it is likely a treated water facility.

LADWP is a member agency of Metropolitan Water District of Southern California (MET). As was the case of the agencies I worked for, we relied on MET for regional treatment. It is far cheaper and efficient to treat water in this manner. This further indicates that the Ynez reservoir was a treated water facility.

Just a side note, in ground reservoirs are very common in the mountainous regions of California, including; of course, the Los Angeles area, as the site itself determines the zone hydraulic elevation.

But we will find out, unless the situation is not reported, covered up or ignored.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

Good luck ever getting insurance there. CA has chased away any and all insurance companies. Your home (if standing) now unsellable. It can't be insured.

If it can't be insured, it can't be financed- you are cash only and good luck getting a reasonable buyer. Nor can it be rebuilt- unless you pay out of pocket.

You CAN blame the CA govt for that.

rjp

Hard to know where to start with this post; basically every word of it is wrong including “the” and “it.” I don’t think I could match it if we had a contest for posting misinformation here.

The Los Angeles RE market went from red hot to white hot since the fires started a week ago, you could probably sell a dog house or an RV for big money right now. People whose house burned down are staying in hotels and ready to buy a replacement house NOW. Even people whose houses did not burn want to buy another house to live in until their old neighborhood is livable again.

As for availability of insurance, it turns out that the big companies do not want to be kicked out of the state after all. The loss of several billion dollars in premiums every year will really cause them to reconsider.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-01-15/state-farm-palisades-fire-non-renewals-la-fires-eaton-insurance-cancellations-altadena

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by speeder

Hard to know where to start with this post; basically every word of it is wrong including “the” and “it.” I don’t think I could match it if we had a contest for posting misinformation here.

The Los Angeles RE market went from red hot to white hot since the fires started a week ago, you could probably sell a dog house or an RV for big money right now. People whose house burned down are staying in hotels and ready to buy a replacement house NOW. Even people whose houses did not burn want to buy another house to live in until their old neighborhood is livable again.

As for availability of insurance, it turns out that the big companies do not want to be kicked out of the state after all. The loss of several billion dollars in premiums every year will really cause them to reconsider.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-01-15/state-farm-palisades-fire-non-renewals-la-fires-eaton-insurance-cancellations-altadena

"Homeowner policies impacted by the fires that were on the books on Jan. 7 will have an option to renew with State Farm for another policy term." If your home was destroyed, and you want to purchase a new home, it does not seem this would apply to you. Don't you find this less of State Farm thinking they would pass on massive profit which they cliam to not make in CA (since they were cancelling many, many policies due to risk and the state not allowing appropriate increase in rates) and more of a publicity move (to continue to renew policies on still-standing, existing homes for one more year)? The company really cannot pass on continued losses in CA and LA to other areas/customers.

[RANDY P]

LOL, whatever you say, Denis. You base that on what, exactly? What your so-called rich friends are saying today?

You act as if every single LA resident has that kind of cash to spend, all because they want to live in that zip code. What you forget is maybe you **can** buy insurance, but at how much?

2nd despite what you think, no one stays in business to lose money, That's why insurance companies have been leaving the state easily for 3 years now. They aren't writing policies you know why?

Terrible fire management/risk. They can't make money. also, stupid ideas like not allowing insurance companies to factor weather risks into premiums, credit ratings, etc. etc. It's no wonder they are leaving. No one is going to be dumb enough to buy another place, in the same fire zone, with ZERO updates to risk management.

rjp

[RANDY P]

LOL I wonder what State Farm is offering as a renewal rate, exactly? I would love to see this.

rjp

[RANDY P]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/09/business/california-wildfires-homeowners-insurance/index.html

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by fintstone

"Homeowner policies impacted by the fires that were on the books on Jan. 7 will have an option to renew with State Farm for another policy term." If your home was destroyed, and you want to purchase a new home, it does not seem this would apply to you. Don't you find this less of State Farm thinking they would pass on massive profit which they cliam to not make in CA (since they were cancelling many, many policies due to risk and the state not allowing appropriate increase in rates) and more of a publicity move (to continue to renew policies on still-standing, existing homes for one more year)? The company really cannot pass on continued losses in CA and LA to other areas/customers.

The insurance companies dodged a bullet. Now, the nation/taxpayer is on the ****ing hook instead.

rjp

[fintstone]

Maybe State Farm simply decided that they had no choice. I cannot imagine that this is enforceable for long or for writing new policies:

California official bans insurance cancellations, nonrenewals in wildfire-affected areas
by Ashleigh Fields - 01/10/25

California’s insurance commissioner issued a one-year moratorium on policy nonrenewals and cancellations in areas affected by devastating wildfires in and around Los Angeles.

“I am using my moratorium powers to prevent insurance companies from canceling or non-renewing policies in wildfire-impacted areas, so people don’t face the added stress of finding new insurance during this horrific event,” the state’s Insurance Commissioner Ricardo Lara said in a statement Thursday.

“I am working on all fronts to make sure wildfire victims get the benefits they are entitled to, and they get it as soon as possible.”

The mandate prevents insurers from cancelling or refusing to renew policies for properties located in any ZIP code within or adjacent to the fire perimeter.

The California Department of Insurance said it may issue a supplemental bulletin for additional ZIP codes determined to be impacted by the state of emergency for Los Angeles and Ventura counties.

Ten people have died as fierce winds fuel massive blazes in the Los Angeles area.

Entire neighborhoods have been obliterated with fires burning more than 10,000 homes and other structures since Tuesday, when flames first popped up north of downtown Los Angeles.

[RANDY P]

$50K a month for coverage. Why not? It's LA, they can afford it.

rjp

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by jyl

I think reservoir capacity doesn’t matter if pipe capacity is limited.

Sure, more reservoirs mean you can run firehoses for longer. Like, after the fire has burned to the ocean, you can still run firehoses. And that makes a difference how?

It's very basic queuing theory, flow control, and REAL world practical experience by humans fighting her, and Mother Nature still just does her thing.... everywhere ya look.

Best to all of you guys!

[rsrguy]

Excellent interview tucker did with shellenberger.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by KC911

It's very basic queuing theory, flow control, and REAL world practical experience by humans fighting her, and Mother Nature still just does her thing.... everywhere ya look.

Best to all of you guys!

This is part of the utter failure to provide adequate infrastructure. Enough fire hydrantsfor the number of houses there in 1960

Insurance companies have been bailing for a while. Any homeowner in California could tell you that

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

This is part of the utter failure to provide adequate infrastructure. Enough fire hydrantsfor the number of houses there in 1960

Insurance companies have been bailing for a while. Any homeowner in California could tell you that

Ins. companies have been bailing, refusing to cover, or charging everyone more.... everywhere.

You can't design most large scale systems to account for everything ... out to the peripheries. It's unaffordable ... or simply logistically impossible in many cases.

[RANDY P]

Whats the latest? No approaching property owners to sell- as if the owner can’t figure it out on their own? CA is great at killing consumer choices now it’s killing them.

The pain is just starting- everyone will be suing and blaming everyone else for their loss- and suing accordingly.

Good luck with that.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by KC911

Ins. companies have been bailing, refusing to cover, or charging everyone more.... everywhere.

You can't design most large scale systems to account for everything ... out to the peripheries. It's unaffordable ... or simply logistically impossible in many cases.

Largely only in places where government restricts the amount they can charge (charge enough to cover the risk they insure).

You can design systems to account for the worst-case scenario...if it important enough to do so. You just have to be willing to pay for it or change the worst-case scenario in other ways/mitigate risk.

[fintstone]

I think many will leave the area on their own and not rebuild (or rebuild to resell) unless interest rates and building materials/labor costs drops like a rock...and I do not predict that. A lot of schools, churches, and shopping are gone...as are neighbors and childhood friends of their kids. Waiting several years in a rental will be a lifetime for kids and most of the folks will have the financial ability (insurance claims) to go elsewhere. By the time one could sort things out and rebuild, kids and parents will have new roots, schools, friends. A fresh start is what I would do under the circumstances. Rip off the band aid and move on.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I think many will leave the area on their own and not rebuild (or rebuild to resell) unless interest rates and building materials/labor costs drops like a rock...and I do not predict that. A lot of schools, churches, and shopping are gone...as are neighbors and childhood friends of their kids. Waiting several years in a rental will be a lifetime for kids and most of the folks will have the financial ability (insurance claims) to go elsewhere. By the time one could sort things out and rebuild, kids and parents will have new roots, schools, friends. A fresh start is what I would do under the circumstances. Rip off the band aid and move on.

How much do you California haters want to bet right here and now that every square inch that was burned in the Palisades gets rebuilt? As always, you seem to have a basic misunderstanding of this place and think that it's just Phoenix or Cincinnati near the ocean.

Where would some super-successful people who lived in the Palisades move to, in your imagination? People live here BY CHOICE, not because it's where they were hatched and they never had the wherewithal to move anywhere else. It's a special place. Yes, it's more expensive in every way than most other places in the U.S. but the benefits in terms of recreation, natural beauty, the local economy, jobs, institutes of higher learning, restaurants, etc., make the possible replacement locations close to non-existent.

Also, people have lived in the area for generations and have deep community and professional ties, not to mention extended family. One good friend who grew up in Santa Monica Canyon, (between Pacific Palisades and Santa Monica), owns a house now in the canyon and his 85 year old father and stepmother live close by. Both houses were spared or missed by the fire, thank god. The father is one of 10 children, all very accomplished and most relocated to the Santa Monica or Palisades area decades ago from New York and raised families here.

They are just one example of a very large family full of high achievers in the area. There are thousands of others. Do people like this exist in other parts of the country and the world? Of course they do but I'm talking about people who choose to live in Southern California in places so beautiful that I could not have closed my eyes and imagined them as a child before I saw them. The thought of people like this relocating to somewhere in the middle of the country because of a fire is absurd. Maybe there is some young tech-scrote or influencer living off of credit cards who lived in the area and will now get spit-out back to Kansas but I view that as a positive for L.A. I hope that lots of weaklings leave, we'll be better for it.