Plane flips ontarmac in Canada

[Cajundaddy]

Just an unbelievable crash with fireball and everyone got out, 18 injured.

My take from the preliminary data so far:
- On approach to runway 23, crosswinds and blowing snow
- Crossiwinds @270* 28 gusting 35kt
- Descent rate on final 1000' per minute (high)
- AIS speed on final 128 (slow for gusty conditions). Normal CRJ approach min is 135-140kt.
- Passengers noted it was a very hard touch down (carrier landing) followed by chaos and the sound of metal on concrete.

As suggested above I think the aircraft was already at a high rate of decent and in the last second over the runway, they hit a gust or a hole and simply dropped onto the runway causing the right gear to fail and separating the right wing, which unloaded jet A all over the runway in a fireball. A miracle the fuselage stayed intact and everyone got out. Props to the emergency response crew who were on scene in minutes.

[URY914]

Here is a posting on Reddit from a passenger that was on the plane. An interesting read....

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1is5unz/i_was_on_the_flight_that_crashed_today_in_toronto/?share_id=_lPx6fxLppEWQdNgTecgK&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_source=share&utm_term=10&rdt=62888

Real world questions and answers being asked.

[Cajundaddy]

Recent video of touchdown.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-7UvCPqnfP8&si=d2IVEI7ouGYvxRSU

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Recent video of touchdown.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-7UvCPqnfP8&si=d2IVEI7ouGYvxRSU

I was just watching some new footage. It almost looks like the rear gear just gave out.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

I was just watching some new footage. It almost looks like the rear gear just gave out.

Yep. They must have found a hole (vertical wind shear) just as they were entering the runway and the plane dropped like a stone with no flare at touchdown. The gear failed, wing tore off and they were all inverted luggage at that point.

[Tim Hancock]

I know little to nothing on how effective the controls are on a large jet like this, but in my small private taildragger plane I always come in faster than normal on windy days so that if I hit a lower windspeed pocket between gusts, my airspeed is still high enough to have sufficient elevator authority and airspeed to pull back to arrest the sudden sink. I have experienced this on several occasions over the years and have never been sorry to have the extra airspeed on final on gusty days.

Maybe these big jets just don't have the elevator response to arrest a sudden sink rate that close to touchdown? Or maybe the pilot just flat out was not quick/sharp enough to recognize how hard he was going to hit while trying to plant it firmly?

[greglepore]

They were slow earlier in the approach, especially considering the wind. Not sure about just as they crossed threshold.

[Tim Hancock]

Video from different angle.... Definitely a hard hit with no visible attempt to flair harder in my opinion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1is1qoy/video_of_feb_17th_crash/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[HardDrive]

The last second before they touch down it looks like it drops like a stone.

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Video from different angle.... Definitely a hard hit with no visible attempt to flair harder in my opinion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1is1qoy/video_of_feb_17th_crash/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[herr_oberst]

[onewhippedpuppy]

I know that depth perception can be an issue with snow covered surfaces, I wonder if that was an issue with the delayed flare?

[Brian 162]

Just guessing the wind may have been a factor. The weather forecast yesterday around here warned of wind gusts.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I know that depth perception can be an issue with snow covered surfaces, I wonder if that was an issue with the delayed flare?

There is some of that. There's also a discussion on Reddit (I lost the thread link) from an CRJ pilot who said that guys call it a "lawn dart" because you land it nose down and flare it very late-its less obvious than in most aircraft. That said, the video shows almost no flare.

Juan mentioned in the video above that they may have been holding left wing up on approach to counteract crosswind-if it died or greatly increased it could account for the hard impact on the right main. He also questions why the spar failure...although I can't tell from the video whether the wing failed due to the gear impact or whether the gear failed and they caught a wingtip.

[onewhippedpuppy]

We get lots of CRJ flights out of Wichita, so I’ve flown on those planes probably hundreds of times. They definitely have a perceptible flare on landing.

Passenger aircraft wings are designed to shear with crash loads, so the aircraft behaved as designed and probably saved the lives of everyone on board.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

We get lots of CRJ flights out of Wichita, so I’ve flown on those planes probably hundreds of times. They definitely have a perceptible flare on landing.

Passenger aircraft wings are designed to shear with crash loads, so the aircraft behaved as designed and probably saved the lives of everyone on board.

This guy has a really good slow mo zoom of the landing, its pretty clear that they drag the wingtip, not that the gear broke the spar. You can see how high the opposite tip is when the right starts to drag snow.

[Cajundaddy]

I will be real interested in the cockpit voice recorder and G forces at touchdown. Maybe this guy flew F-18s for the Navy before becoming a commercial pilot.

[Jeff Alton]

Will be interesting to hear the experience of the crew and how current they were.

[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Excellent video and analysis.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

Will be interesting to hear the experience of the crew and how current they were.

Jeff your comment " how current they were " , does that mean training or flight hours or Sim training ? I was wondering the same thing . I am not trying to blame the pilot/copilot but do wonder about seat time .

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Jeff your comment " how current they were " , does that mean training or flight hours or Sim training ? I was wondering the same thing . I am not trying to blame the pilot/copilot but do wonder about seat time .

It’s well known that regional airlines are generally fresh pilots trying to build time so they can get hired as a pilot for a major airline. Endeavor Air actually advertises their DEI push as “unmanned” flights because they want all-women crews. It also wouldn’t be the first time that a sub-par pilot was pushed through a failed simulator check or check ride because of their race or sex. So the experience and pedigree of the pilot will be an interesting part of this investigation.