Is Muscle dead?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

this is just dumb ass ageism.

the young car people i know, could probably race circles around you, and out wrench you in heartbeat, all while laying on a frozen lake changing out a clutch in -10 degrees. get ****ing real lol.

It's not important that you bury everybody.

I mean, Racerbvd is handsome and you're not. He wins, right? He just stands there in his old ass body and chicks still like to hang with him. If I'm lyin, I'm dyin.

I saw one of the Bowden brother's pull and fix a 915 at the Fur Rhondy (Rondy) races in the 80's. It was minus 112F. He had a t-shirt on. He is clearly better than you and your associates, right, according to CP logic?

You still have testosterone, you Schnauzer. Enjoy it while you can. You will be nice some day. I promise.

I call this portrait "CP Finally Not Belittling"

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

The better question is really "Is performance dead" and the answer is a resounding no.

Corvette ZR1X is rumored to have 1300 hp at the flywheel, which is more than Chevy is advertising. (Doing that thing that Porsche has traditionally done; underreporting hp.)

The ZR1 supposedly has 1200 FWHP, also more than advertised.

That's one example of today's performance.

Personally, I think it's criminal; this car and many like it, as sold, is not equipped to save the occupants in the event of high speed catastrophe any more than the 1960 Chrysler 300 was going to do much to save it's occupants in the event of loss of control at speed.
But that's just me. I get a little edgy thinking about that kind of stuff.

I look at it as Darwin at work. I had an argument with my Aunt’s old boyfriend, who was talking about how great back up cameras are and how every car should have them.
I explained that, in my opinion, people rely too much on technology and become lazy and too reliant on it. They no longer pay attention and look behind them, just watching the screen,, he was also ranting about how great the side view cameras, I pointed out that people are already too lazy to use them mirrors this just dumbs people down even more.
When I’m instructing at the track, I hammer on “Situational Awareness” , use your mirrors, pay attention to cars coming behind you, etc.
When I instruct corporate events, I would hammer into the students (these were corporate team building events, so driving a sedan, and rotating 3 students per car , driving, all of us in the car together). For these events, I would pick out objects, on the side of the track and ask them where f they saw them. Pointing out that the importance of this exercise is if driving through a neighborhood, you have to be extremely aware, kids, pets, etc can appear out of nowhere.
We generally did these events for E.Paul, he only used his graduate instructors for the Corporate events, and the ones I instructed were at Roebling Road outside of Savannah, Georgia. If more people did those type of events (Brumos use to include a school with every new Porsche sold with Hurly Haywood as chief instructor.
PCA events, vary depending on the region, but it’s typically the guys, you are thinking about, the clowns who buy way more car than they can drive, and think they are Hans Stuck, right up until they max out spins for the day or weekend have to sit out the day or weekend. The more technologically advanced cars become, the worse the drivers are.
I mentioned my old C4 before, and the fact that it took the fun out because it would save your ass, during a new instructor mentors program that I instructed at, I was told n an extremely raw 911SC, with a friend of mine who was becoming a instructor. Driving and riding in that 911 (he had it in the paint shop for a full repaint) with no glass was a exhilarating experience, and reminded me of how much fun it is to literally have to work to drive a car..
Back on topic, someone mentioned a old Hemi, a friend of mine had a 69 Hemi 500 Charger, and he pickled the original engine and had another one built into insane HP, on the 1st test drive, when the car was jumped on, but t twisted the drive shaft (this same friend at on time owned a rear Shelby Cobra, that is another story for another day, raced a 935, and raced a old 911 (not when he raced it) among several very cool cars)







Ash was a true car guy, and I learned a lot from him, yet, especially considering the family he came from, was an extremely humble. Again, stories for another day. I will say this, I really miss him. Again, I am fortunate to have had him as a friend and mentor.

[A930Rocket]

I don’t know why trolls who were not around in the 60s or early 70s to experience what cars they had back then don’t understand for the era, they were fast cars compared to what else was available.then.

Compared to what’s available now, no, they are not considered as fast. Still fun cars, though .But we’re talking 50 years of technology….

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I don’t know why trolls who were not around in the 60s or early 70s to experience what cars they had back then don’t understand for the era, they were fast cars compared to what else was available.then.

Compared to what’s available now, no, they are not considered as fast. Still fun cars, though .But we’re talking 50 years of technology….

That’s just it, they are clueless, not only were the cars fast, but as others have already pointed out, the tire technology was very scetchy compared to today, look at the speeds the 917s were achieving back then, hell, look at the Superbirds speeds on the track. Those were Real men, they weren’t raised by women, they had an actual Male as part of their lives to raise them.
I remember when the Vipers 1st came out, it was the first car in my driving lifetime , and those of a certain age remember being taught to drive like there is a egg between your foot and the gas pedal, that was the 1st car that it truly seemed to matter. A few months later , I was back, my friend told me to take his Viper out and and tell him what I thought. Well, he had sent it to Hennessy, as if it was not fast enough before. Wow, is the only way to describe it. Truly a car that demands respect or will hurt you.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

You still have testosterone, you Schnauzer. Enjoy it while you can. You will be nice some day. I promise.

I call this portrait "CP Finally Not Belittling"

You're predicting he's going to get kindler and gentler vs more grumpy and cantankerous? There's always hope, right.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by masraum

You're predicting he's going to get kindler and gentler vs more grumpy and cantankerous? There's always hope, right.

I just wanted to call him a schnauzer.

He can take it.

[thingmon]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Maybe he’s a mixed-breed. A Cocker Schnauzer?

Schnapoo?

[pavulon]

ZR1X pulls over 1G in forward acceleration and 1G in lateral acceleration simultaneously. People can wax nostalgic muscle car memories all they want. I love some of them too. But performance numbers like that don't lie.

[Steve Carlton]

That’s remarkable. It would have to be an unusual situation- some sort of increasing radius turn.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by masraum

ROFLMAO!
In the grand scheme of things there are a lot worse things that a person could be called.

Exactly. Beating on the CP will only make him laugh.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

That’s remarkable. It would have to be an unusual situation- some sort of increasing radius turn.

It really is remarkable. Assuming a 60's or early 70's muscle car was actually able to generate 1G of acceleration (drag slicks and motorcycle width front tires), what level of simultaneous lateral G experience could be considered controlled and how little beyond that would result in complete loss of control?

We won't even try to talk about braking.

IMO one trick ponies might be dead but performance cars have sailed beyond the horizon since.

[pwd72s]

Say what you will about the muscle of old...I have many fond memories of my Pontiac GTO days of 'the mid 60's. Then I drove my first Porsche...and my muscle days were over. (edit) I do currently have a Pony car...

[jyl]

Somehow I flashed back to the Mustang II “Cobra”. Now that was a hot car! Here is a picture. Sorry there is something on the hood.

[herr_oberst]

Peak Farrah. Yeow.

The Mustang II Cobra. The bad old days of badge engineering.

Fun fact, the Mustang II front suspension (especially the rack and pinion steering) is still a mainstay of the hot-rodding and muscle car hobby. Big Block swaps into pony cars was made a lot easier thanks to Ford engineers!

[ted]

This Mustang Cobra II was conceived and raced by Charlie Kemp, an experienced racer who had competed in the early SCCA Trans-Am series and then in the Can-Am from 1970 through 1973. He was clocked at 222 mph at Riverside driving a Porsche 917-10 in 1973. In 1975, IMSA introduced a new category, All-American GT, designed to add some domestic competition into their GT road-racing program. With Chevrolet already in with their tube-chassis DeKon Monzas, Kemp saw an opportunity to build a similar but better Ford-powered design for the 1976 season. His car’s tube chassis was designed by the legendary Bob Riley, and it used a Ford “Cleveland” 351 cubic-inch V-8 for power. Despite using body panels made from bucks taken off a production Mustang II and using a production-car roof panel and windshield, the car was undeniably radical in its appearance and caused a stir when rolled out of its trailer for the first time in early 1976 at the Daytona 24-Hour. For five seasons, Kemp was continuously at odds with IMSA, who argued that the design of the car *pushed the bounds of rules interpretation. With some second and third place finishes to its credit, the car never actually won a race, but today it is recognized as the lone example of Ford “connective tissue” between the early Trans-Am period of 1966-1970 and the imminent onslaught of the tube-chassis revolution starting in 1981.

[Dixie]

Originally Posted by jyl

Somehow I flashed back to the Mustang II “Cobra”. Now that was a hot car! Here is a picture. Sorry there is something on the hood.

I thought it was a rather nice looking car, even if the inside was a bit cheap looking. I think it even came with a 302. Probably with 120hp back then, but everything sucked in 1977,

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by ted

the design of the car *pushed the bounds of rules interpretation.

Shades of the Moby Dick! Great story about this car!

[jyl]

I had a 65 Mustang notchback with HiPo 289 and super low rear end. Fun car. I’d like a fastback 65/66 someday. Hope prices come downdown.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by jyl

I had a 65 Mustang notchback with HiPo 289 and super low rear end. Fun car. I’d like a fastback 65/66 someday. Hope prices come downdown.

If you check the Hagerty market index they are moving down quite a bit.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by jyl

I had a 65 Mustang notchback with HiPo 289 and super low rear end. Fun car. I’d like a fastback 65/66 someday. Hope prices come downdown.

prices on classic muscle cars are dropping like stones. the boomers are aging out, and my generation isnt as fascinated with them as the boomers were. prices on JDM 80s/90s stuff is skyrocketing as a result.