difficult client, got lawyer after me, advice?

[look 171]

We did a 800k renovation for this women in the past year. We took care of business including dealing with the crazy neighbor. Done and now, we finished the outdoor kitchen. Owner requested restaurant style pull out spray for sink, stainless tops for workspace along with BBQ and cook top. Not big but a good amount of usable space. She claims she can't reach and the spring is too stiff for her liking, so we exchange for a normal faucet only to discovered that she wanted a longer spout. OK, a longer spout installed. Now, she claims she can't put in a pot due to the long spout but the spout can be swung out of the way. All Chicago commercial, so its not cheap. I had to bill her for that. She isn't happy and wanted 4500 bucks back. She's been told that there's no refund on wholesale faucets. I don't know how she came up with 4500? Its been a few months and I offer her 1000 for her unsatisfactory with the height. She is about 5' tall and shrinking due to age.

She has her lawyer after me but realistically, what can they do to me? According to this dirt-bag lawyer, she can make my life difficult. How so for such small amount. I understand small claims court but I am not sure if I even want to get further and just pay it off but its the principle that burns my chops. We worked hard for her.

[Dantilla]

Did you get all the change orders in writing?

[look 171]

No. She wanted a restaurant spray faucet, no bug deal I just pay it to make my clients happy. I just think she is one one bitter lady. Its not about the money, my big question is, how can she or lawyer make my life difficule. Maybe if they tag on lost of use and all the BS that can all add up to tens of thousands?

[Steve Carlton]

Have you talked to her lawyer? If so, what does he want? Seems like $4,500 against an $800K job should be chicken feed, although super annoying. For that kind of money, why find out what they can do? Seems like you've got a lot more to lose than to gain.

[cabmandone]

I'm with Steve C on this one. I suppose you could take your chances with small claims if they file against you. But what is your time ultimately worth and is the aggravation worth it? Unless you have everything documented regarding work changes and the client signing off, I think I'd try to negotiate something in the middle and move on.

[look 171]

I was thinking 3500 and make it go away. You guys are correct. I am really curious about that they can really over 4500?

[gregpark]

Originally Posted by look 171

No. She wanted a resmy big question is, how can she or lawyer make my life difficule.

She could make your life difficult with a complaint to the CSLB. The license we hold benefits the consumer more than protects the contractor. At least in CA that is

[LWJ]

I have insured many contractors and dug into countless conflicts, just like this.

First. You need to understand on a scale of 1-10 this is about a 1.2. But that is now. The F'n lawyer can move the needle to 9.5 very quickly.

I would advise to meet with her face to face. No lawyer. Resolve this ASAP. Swallow some pride and find a resolution - I KNOW that you are right. That fact really doesn't matter at this point. From my perspective? I would even eat the darn $4500. This is pennies compared to what a juicy claim can do to you.

But critical is 1. full and complete release on this entire job / acceptance of the work. 2. No F'n lawyer, including going forward 3. Any future work is billed / paid agreed upon to your satisfaction. Example - she wants you to polish the counter tops. You quote it and have a signed change order.

She sounds like a difficult but lucrative client. We all have these. You are a pro and probably are knocked off your normal game on this stupid issue. Don't be. It is a simple thing. You can do this.

[Bill Douglas]

It's expensive to take someone to court. And they will lose. I think the lawyer is just trying to bluff/bully you.

[sc_rufctr]

If I was in your position I wouldn't do anything until I spoke to a lawyer.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by LWJ

I have insured many contractors and dug into countless conflicts, just like this.

First. You need to understand on a scale of 1-10 this is about a 1.2. But that is now. The F'n lawyer can move the needle to 9.5 very quickly.

I would advise to meet with her face to face. No lawyer. Resolve this ASAP. Swallow some pride and find a resolution - I KNOW that you are right. That fact really doesn't matter at this point. From my perspective? I would even eat the darn $4500. This is pennies compared to what a juicy claim can do to you.

But critical is 1. full and complete release on this entire job / acceptance of the work. 2. No F'n lawyer, including going forward 3. Any future work is billed / paid agreed upon to your satisfaction. Example - she wants you to polish the counter tops. You quote it and have a signed change order.

She sounds like a difficult but lucrative client. We all have these. You are a pro and probably are knocked off your normal game on this stupid issue. Don't be. It is a simple thing. You can do this.

This is an excellent example of what makes this place so great.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

It's expensive to take someone to court. And they will lose. I think the lawyer is just trying to bluff/bully you.

She would rather give her lawyer $25K than give him $5K for work already done. It is the "principle" to her.

Yes that is irrational and crazy

[vash]

piece of cake!! whip out the signed and executed Change order and have your lawyer hand it off to her lawyer.

[1990C4S]

If they are serious they will sue you. If they are looking for easy money they will try to negotiate with you.

It is not worth her time to sue you, but she might be bitter enough to do it. If she is, pay her. The risk, time, and legal costs aren't worth the trouble.

Tell her lawyer you will pay $1,000 max . Tell them it's generous and you have all the documentation you need to win in court. After that wait to see if they sue you.

[LWJ]

Y'all are not in the insurance claims biz. They don't need to bother with any effort re: a lawsuit. All that is needed is to make a claim against the insurance carrier (for ANYTHING) or a nasty gram to the Contractors Board and Look171's life will start to suck. My neighbor hired the world's most incompetent fencing contractor who cut up MY hedge. I just made one call. That was it. About 5 minutes of time to file a claim. No lawyer needed. No expense. No problem.

This is very much a one sided conflict at this moment. Unfortunately.

[Zeke]

Having held a General B CA Lic from '82 I can say I know the CSLB. Not that I ever had a problem with them, I haven't. One thing you can count on is that the CSLB runs more or less a 6 month back log at any given time. There are 2 reasons for this, FOA they are understaffed and under funded. Secondly, an agency like the CSLB gets a LOT of BS complaints and the weak ones tend to die on the vine. They can count on that so they aren't involved with every little petty issue such as this. The real problems they face regularly involve some pretty egregious cases brought on by non payment, mishandling funds, abandonment, fraud and/or insurance claims due to uninsured workers, etc. These can run from thousands to millions, but I'd believe mostly limited to 6 figures in residential work unless there was a death or something that grave.

To go to SCC is useless and I've been there as a plaintiff (I won). Anyone can appeal for any reason which automatically kicks it up to district court where attorneys are allowed to represent either or both sides. And you start over from the beginning because the judge doesn't care what was said in SCC. AFAIK the monetary limit is not fixed at the SCC level anymore so lawyer fees, etc. can be added in.

Now for the case itself: whether you believe the CSLB is biased one way or the other, you will find that they are interested in one thing and one thing only, the law as set forth the the Business and Professional Codes of CA State law. If a law or code provision is violated the CSLB will cite a licensed contractor or unlicensed individual. They do not establish any value to the infraction and the matter is handled in Superior Court and involves, at the minimum, a misdemeanor. IOW, a criminal proceeding. There are no financial losses discussed other than the fact.

Lawsuits brought against either party of a contract are brought by the damaged party and any financial damages must be proved. So, if this lady could not use her sink but cannot show a financial loss due to loss of income resulting from an unusable sink, then she must show first her income pattern and how it was interrupted. Inconvenience is going to be very difficult to state in financial terms. A misunderstanding, even contractual, does not necessarily mean there was a loss leading to a claim for damages.

I cannot foresee any tortious, fraudulent activity or criminal intent here. What I see here is simply a matter of she said/he said miscommunication. Once the CSLB gets wind of this, they will say take it to court. This is not for us.

So now the thing comes down to what others are saying here, how much is your time worth? A quick end to the matter is the best course. Basically it's "What will it take to settle the problem?" look171 needs to first offer to supply and install a faucet that will satisfy the client. This is important and every step must be documented to show willingness to correct the issue w/o any money involved other than the cost of the approved faucet. Approval must be in writing with pics. If the client refuses to accept the offer to install an approved faucet, this action by her must be witnessed and documented. This is always the first corrective action recognized by the CSLB and will hit a home run when it comes to negating any so called damages alleged by an attorney.

If I was in this situation I would not be hustled, threatened or blackmailed by an attorney representing the client. I would clearly ask what he intends to base his claim on and ask to see the claim. I would consider countersuing, but I'm not there and don't know the whole story. But that's the norm in the chess game that is about to be played.

All of this assumes no words constituting offense were spoken. Witnesses to any and all allegations are paramount to the strength of any claim. Stiil, I have had two conflicts that escalated even though only myself and the other party were present at the time of the occurrence. I would not have won the SCC case if it weren't for times, dates and receipts to validate my statements. The other was subjective in every way and I just paid a portion of the labor claim (unauthorized) to free myself of any further actions by either party. IOW, how much was my time was worth.

[javadog]

Always get signed approvals for all work...

[Danimal16]

Has the attorney provided a Cure Notice or a Show Cause Letter?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

It's expensive to take someone to court. And they will lose. I think the lawyer is just trying to bluff/bully you.

With all due respect, HTF would you know how things work here? You live in New Zealand, right?

[dad911]

At that level both sides lose going to court.

Been down that road quite a few times, but usually with a subcontractor not a client. Each time the plaintiff dropped the case on the courtroom steps, or agreed to a court appointed arbitrator. We always prevailed in these cases, but they are draining.

Does your contract call for binding arbitration by any chance? Or any other remedies?

I think I would try to get them to agree to a binding arbitration limiting your exposure to $4500 + 1/2 cost of arbitration.