My Dishwasher Conundrum

[jyl]

No real point to this but I know you guys can relate to self-inflicted machinery dilemmas.

My dishwasher at home is an old Hobart LX30H, circa 1993 or thereabouts. This is a high temp commercial undercounter warewasher. I bought it for $250 from a friend’s closing bar, ran the necessary 240v 40A circuit, and discovered the joys of 120 second cycles and hot dishes that air-dry in a minute. Later I designed my kitchen around the commercial dish workflow, with a deep sink and a commercial pre-rinse sprayer. Over the years I’ve made little repairs to keep the old machine going, including JB Welding a seep in the hot water tank that PPOT helped me with.

Well, the old Hobart stopped draining. The drain valve is buried deep in the machine, you can’t even touch it much less get a wrench on it, without separating the upper and lower halves of the machine. Which I can’t see doing, it’s too heavy, you practically need a lift or hoist. So my son and I wrestled the 200 lb machine into my truck and took it to the Hobart service place, who unstuck the drain valve but warned that the fix might not last, the valve is NLA, and other stuff in the machine is ready to fail too. Back at home, the drain valve re-stuck after a day.

What to do. Since the machine won’t drain, each cycle adds more water to the tub until it overflows onto the kitchen floor, and the machine sits full of dirty water all night. Hand-bailing works but isn’t a long term solution.

Thought of these solutions:

1. Give up and get a regular dishwasher. That would be affordable ($500? $1,000?), and affordable is good. That would also be okay for everyday use, when we’ve only generated a normal amount of soiled ware. However, when entertaining or just getting into cooking projects, we generate enough dirty pots and pans and dishes and glassware to fill a standard dishwasher 4X. I hate seeing dirty stuff pile up. With the Hobart, after a pot comes off the burner and the food moved to the next stage, the pot gets sprayed and washed and is hanging up two minutes later. I’ll run the machine twenty times for a typical dinner party.

2. MacGyver the old Hobart. I know how to do this, get a $30 automatic condensate drain pump, stick it to the bottom of the tub, run wire and hose through a hole drilled in the back of the tub to the sink and outlet, the pump keeps the water in the tub from rising above the desired level. A second switched pump can handle fully draining the tub at the end of each meal. It will work, buy me some more time, but how much more? Super cheap though.

3. Get a high end dishwasher that has a super fast cycle. Miele make the PFD404U240 “Professional” model, with every possible bell and whistle and most importantly a six minute “Rapid” cycle. Expensive, $6,700. Asking around, the Rapid cycle doesn’t really replace the 120 second cycle of the Hobart. For one thing, the Miele doesn’t rinse at 180F so the dishes don’t come out hot and air-dry quickly. For another, since the Miele uses standard slide-in/out racks, you can’t air-dry the dishes without leaving the door open which impedes movement in my kitchen. Also, I was told the Miele, while a very high end dishwasher, still isn’t as rugged as a commercial machine. On the positive side, for everyday use it would be just as convenient as any residential dishwasher. And if it has a problem, a Miele service tech will come fix it in my house.

4. Get a new Hobart. The latest model, the LXnR Advansys, looks awesome, even has WiFi for parameters and diagnostics, steam elimination, energy recovery, and can be used with two racks or one. It would be the last dishwasher I ever buy, judging from how long my current Hobart has lasted. However, they cost $9,700, the warranty is void in a residential setting, the Hobart techs won’t service it in a home.

5. Get a refurbished Hobart. The Hobart service place sometimes gets used machines and refurbs them for resale. Problem is, they don’t have any right now. Not sure of the cost, depends on model. Same issue with service as #4.

6. Get a used Hobart pulled from a failed cafe or bar, hopefully a fairly recent one with light use by a little old lady who only drove it to church. This can run anywhere from $2,000 to $3,500 at an equipment liquidator. Less if you stumble across the bar as it’s shutting down. Of course, caveat emptor. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t. Service issues like #4.

Sigh. I feel like I’ve made this complicated. I could simply call Home Depot and have them install a Bosch or LG or whatever. But I am pretty addicted to super-fast cycles and being able to run rack after rack and clean up after a big dinner party in 15 minutes.

[look 171]

No more dinner parties. No more work, no cleaning, sit back, drink beer, eat pizza get fat. Problem solved.

I don't have anything for you but if you do get a normal DW, get a Bosch.

[LWJ]

Would this fit?

https://bend.craigslist.org/app/d/redmond-hobart-dishwasher-lx30/7903728086.html

Or this?

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bfs/d/seattle-hobart-undercounter-dishwasher/7874624594.html

I think that replacing with a similar unit would be a very easy thing as long as you find a good one.

Did I read 120 second cycle!? Wow. Also, the second advertisement above is 4 MONTHS old. Meaning, the world is not beating a path towards buying old Hobart's and there will certainly be large negotiation room.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

If you have become endearingly accustomed to fast, hot washed dishes, it's not even a choice. FBMP may be the best option for a restaurant/bar going out of business. I see them all the time. You can go in and try it out, they may even have a service history.

I started washing dishes after 10th grade so know and appreciate what the machines do. A good used one is the best choice, next is a new one, what price for joy day after day as you are getting older, is too much.

[greglepore]

Yeah, what Shaun said. I've always envied you having a Hobart at home. I used to repair mine at my restaurant, so I know the challenges. But I also know how nice it is to have dishes in 2 minutes.
I'd McGuyver what you have with a manually switched drain pump (or one with a float switch-think sailboat bilge) until you can find a decent used machine.

[Gogar]

Find a used Hobart at the restaurant liquidation and move along. Don't "suffer the imagined trouble" of the next one failing. Never bothered you before.

[rwest]

An automatic drain valve has got to be a common device, could you figure out the voltage needed to open it and then find an industrial source and find one you could retrofit in it?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

If you have become endearingly accustomed to fast, hot washed dishes, it's not even a choice. FBMP may be the best option for a restaurant/bar going out of business. I see them all the time. You can go in and try it out, they may even have a service history.

I started washing dishes after 10th grade so know and appreciate what the machines do. A good used one is the best choice, next is a new one, what price for joy day after day as you are getting older, is too much.

I agree with this. Even a high end residential model will totally suck compared to what you guys are describing from a commercial unit. Especially considering the kitchen is already set up for the Hobart. I’d do dishes by hand until I could find a good used one to plug in the hole.

[Cajundaddy]

If you want another Hobart, just get one. Life is short.

Otherwise, my experience with a dishwasher is far different. We do entertain family weekly with up to 12 people and have worked out a system that gets dishes done quickly. Whomever cooks the meal is relieved of KP and the other and/or daughters pitch in on cleanup. All dishware utensils, silverware, glasses, bowls, measuring devices get a quick rinse and go in the dishwasher, it gets started. The pots and pans are usually only 3 get hand washed which takes maybe 5 minutes, dried and stowed. The dishwasher then continues the job which takes 2 hrs or so and we usually just let it run and unload in the morning. Kitchen is clean quickly, dishwasher is nearly silent and just works.

Our current dishwasher is a Whirlpool and really does a nice job. I never have to fuss with it and the dishes are always perfectly clean. Had a similar experience with a GE at our last house.

We did have a Bosch from 2008-2015 and ours was a PITA. It had some sort of software glitch where it would often fail to go through it's start sequence and shut down. Mfg defect and no appliance guy seemed to have a solution. I found a button-press dance online that moved it past the fail point and it worked. The other issue is that the drain would clog easily. It was an "energy saver" or some such with no macerator so once every 2 months or so I had to clear crap out of the drain strainer. I got good at this but... I should have hauled it out to the range for target practice instead.

Good luck in your decision!

[RNajarian]

Personally I am envious of the 2 minute cycle. Bite the bullet and get a new Hobert for piece of mind.

Used is great . . . Until they give you trouble

[Zeke]

The refurb sounds good to me but the question is if they can refurb they must have a way to deal with a NLA part, or they can take one from an otherwise dead unit. Maybe talk to the people who do the refurbs and offer a "finders fee."

Also, the the drain is physically there then I think it can be rebuilt. With that kind of replacement cost you can afford to have parts made if necessary. I agree that the drain likely is built from outside vendors parts. Specifically any coil would be available from McMaster or Digikey.

Check on appliance forums. Some are professional, at least one is. The washer sounds incredible so don't give up on this. You can probably get a temporary replacement for a couple bills used. I've been using a Kitchenaid take out since 2010.

[Scott Douglas]

You guys don't know how jealous my wife would be if she read this thread about 2 minute cycles. Our 'portable' Maytag has been doing our dishes since we moved in back in '85. It takes about 2 hours to run full cycle, I think. Never timed it to be honest as I don't really care how long it takes. I'm not standing at the sink doing dishes, it is. My wife hates it since it's noisy and not built-in. I love the fact I don't have to wash dishes, pure and simple.

Here it is hard at work this morning.
Since we bought it, family members have gone thru at least three Bosch and one Samsung dishwashers while ours keeps on keeping on.

[Zeke]

"Since we bought it, family members have gone thru at least three Bosch and one Samsung dishwashers while ours keeps on keeping on."

There probably wasn't much wrong with the Bosch ones the couldn't be fixed but the Samsungs were trash right out of the box according to appliance folks. I understand that service people are expensive and not too many around anymore. But those Bosch DW's should have had a 2nd chance, IMHO.

[jyl]

The drain valve, Hobart part 00-329241 Drain Valve Body, looks like this
https://partstown.sirv.com/products/HOB/HOB00-329241.view?thumb&image.rules=G0&w=800

It sits under the tub and is solenoid operated. The machine has one large pump, for wash/rinse and for drain. The solenoid, which switches the valve between wash/rinse and drain, is readily available. I haven’t found the valve anywhere. To replace, you separate the upper half of the machine with controls, tub, and arms from the lower half with pump, plumbing, hot tank, etc.

Hobart stopped using the solenoid-switched drain valve during the long run of the LX30/40 line, and switched to a design with a separate drain pump with a separate water inlet from the tank. More expensive but probably more reliable. So my machine is an old version of an old model, which makes the parts NLA issue worse.

In addition to (temporarily, alas) un-sticking the valve, the Hobart tech replaced some plastic fittings that were leaking (pulled parts off scrap machines or used the last part he had) and looked over the machine, then gave me his doleful assessment. That cost $361.

[JackDidley]

My last dishwasher lasted about 10 years. I got tired of the maintenance and kicked her out.

[jyl]

The refurb unit would be a recent model.

I am not an expert on Hobart models but I believe my machine is from the LX30-40 line, made in the early 1990s(?). They’ve had a couple lines since. The latest LXnR was introduced around 2023(?) and basically added WiFi for parameter setting, reporting, and diagnostics; I guess the idea is you’re the equipment guy for a chain and want to be able to monitor all the Hobart dishwashers chainwide. The “Advansys” LXeR model before that was launched around 2020(?) and introduced energy recovery; the machine somehow harvests energy from the steam created during final 180F rinse, this eliminates the steam otherwise released into the room and allows the machine to use cold supply water instead of the hot supply previously required, it takes that 65F water and brings it to 180F. Those machines have “EnergyStar” labels. The model before that, LXeH, had some automatic features like sensors for clogged arms or deliming needed, and different cycles for light, heavy, pot/pan. My 30(?) year old LX30H machine is very “primitive” with precisely three buttons: ON OFF WASH. It is also built like armor, weighs 200 lb, the door is designed for 300 lb cooks who stand on the open door to reach upper shelves and similar abuse. After the LX30/40, they had the LXI model but I’m not sure what was different about it.

LWJ, thanks for checking Craigslist. The LX30/40 and LXI models are all similar vintage to mine. I suspect they are all getting difficult to service.

Hobart has introduced two cheaper brands to compete with the made-in-China machines that you can get as cheap as $3,000. The Hobart tech told me they have similar internals but lighter-gauge materials and fewer features. The machines I described above are the top range machines that are branded “Hobart”. I hope they haven’t cheapened that range. Hobart still has a good reputation, I think.

[jyl]

So I am thinking, after reading your counsel, that I’m gonna
- McGyver the old Hobart for now
- Hunt for a recent model used Hobart at a reasonable price
- Use that until it croaks, or I croak
- If the latter takes too long, at some point I’ll probably switch to a conventional machine when lifting full racks becomes too much. Maybe that’s when I get the Miele Professional, a six minute Rapid Cycle is still pretty nice sounding.

I decided I’m not spending $10K for a new Hobart at my house because in a few months I’ll need to buy a machine for the cafe, and that’s where I should spend $ for new + service plan (or lease).

[herr_oberst]

I wonder if anyone has an old part you could buy or have and re-engineer it with better bushings or whatever to make it work better longer.

Maybe try to hook up a cable to the valve and just open and close it manually.

I just looked that baby up on the google. The cost of the part alone is obscene. If the hobart dealer had had a new part in stock, your repair bill would have been double.

[MBAtarga]

I see several used units in CA in FB Marketplace.

[greglepore]

Hobart Canada shows that part as in stock...