Driveway Decision?

[Chocaholic]

The driveway at our lakehouse is about 350 ft long concrete. Near the house it’s stamped and stained and in pretty good shape. But sections are busted up pretty badly, presumably from heavy moving vans and such over the years. I can imagine the cost to bust it up, haul it off, regrade and pour new concrete would be expensive.

Is asphalt a viable option? And can asphalt be installed on top of the existing concrete or must it also be removed? Would asphalt be any cheaper? Other options? I guess leaving it as it is may also be an option.

[john70t]

Talk to pros about https://www.a1concrete.com/concrete-repair-learning-center/slabjacking-concrete-jacking.
Might be able to raise the pieces flush, fill in the gaps, and coat with something. IDK.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

The driveway at our lakehouse is about 350 ft long concrete. Near the house it’s stamped and stained and in pretty good shape. But sections are busted up pretty badly, presumably from heavy moving vans and such over the years. I can imagine the cost to bust it up, haul it off, regrade and pour new concrete would be expensive.

Is asphalt a viable option? And can asphalt be installed on top of the existing concrete or must it also be removed? Would asphalt be any cheaper? Other options? I guess leaving it as it is may also be an option.

Asphalt should be multiple times cheaper and I would have the old concrete removed because if some of it is breaking up, the rest might too and I think they expand and contract at different rates- the main drag by my house is asphalt over concrete and with our freeze thaw year, it is so pot holed that it is ridiculous.

Side benefit if it snows where you live is the black color melts snow better than concrete.

[Baz]

I have TWO concrete driveways. They have some cracks. No way am I changing anything - I love a concrete driveway and can live with a few cracks here and there.

How bad is yours, Mike...can you post a few pics?

[Danimal16]

You really need to know what caused the failure.

How old is the concrete, how thick, is it reinforced?

Without seeing the surface, you really cannot even begin to make an informed decision.

Asphalt has its place, but the sub grade is key to that section as it is with concrete.

If the slab was less than 6 inches with reinforcement, then it was doomed from the beginning.

If the slabs are displaced, then you may want to look at the hydraulic jacking that John70 suggested. 300 feet is a substantial piece of concrete.

[sc_rufctr]

A few photos may be helpful.

How about removing the broken concrete and replacing it with sharp compacted gravel.

I've always liked gravel driveway because they look right. Much "softer" than concrete.

[Tidybuoy]

I'm not advocating for gravel. but if you do go that route, I recommend using geo-mesh with it. I did gravel in my alley behind my house and I used geo-mesh that is basically individual pockets that are filled with crushed rock. The geo-mesh holds everything in place and nothing will leave tracks in the gravel.

The only downside is that gravel is not fun to walk on barefoot.

[rfuerst911sc]

How hard would it be to cut out the bad sections and repour concrete ? Let's say you cut out a 6 ' x 8 ' section . Drill some holes in the clean cut lines and epoxy in some rebar. Tie that rebar to additional rebar grid or reinforcement wire . Form boards on both open sides and pour . As others have said pics would be helpful .

[Chocaholic]

Thanks. Some sections are clean, others pretty badly busted up. House was built in 89, so I’m guessing driveway is same age. No idea about thickness, rebar, etc.

I tried to attach I-phone pictures but resolution is too high, Pelican won’t accept. Don’t know how to lower the resolution.

[onewhippedpuppy]

If you crop the pictures a little bit, they should upload.

[rfuerst911sc]

I say get 3 quotes to repair just the bad sections vs a completely new pour . See what they have to say and go from there . You might consider a semi DIY repair . You can rent a concrete saw and make the cuts yourself . Then rent equipment to bust up the concrete. Short term lay the busted up concrete off to the side .

Set the form boards yourself . Hire concrete contractor dude to pour/finish the sections you cut out . If the grunt work is not something you want to do then just hire one of the 3 quotes and get on with life .

[porsche tech]

I had concrete that was cracking up pretty bad. We have so many trees around here that the roots wreak havoc on driveways. I decided to go with pavers which was a bit more expensive than concrete. However when it buckles up again which is inevitable, they just remove some pavers, cut out the roots and put the pavers back.

[Chocaholic]

Cropped way down.

[MBAtarga]

Rip it all out and start over if that section is indicative of the rest.


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[rfuerst911sc]

How many sections of driveway look like that ? And I would say that tree right next to the driveway isn't helping .

[Danimal16]

The usual bandit for pavement failure is in the sub grade. If there are sections that are failed it probably is from a sub grade failure, i.e. improper compaction or frost heave or water a combination.

If you have failed sections where it is completely holed, you can tell if there is any reinforcement, it will be quite apparent. There is a chance that the reinforcement may have been installed incorrectly in that it was not "pulled" up into the bottom of the slab, in the case of welded wire fabric (WWF) or in the case of rebar the reinforcement was not "chaired", in that it was place directly on the sub grade prior to the pour. If that is the case, you can repair the slabs in sections. Photos can help.

As for the use of geotechnical fabrics under gravel; these need to be used with caution. It is very common to see these types of sections fail due to shoving, which is when the gravel moves under tire loading shears, especially on any type of slope or cross sectional drainage (camber drainage). Repairing these types of roads, even with simple regrading is a huge chore and usually requires the fabric sections to be removed and replaced. Be very careful when considering that solution, especially with gravel.

Photos of the failed and non-failed sections would helpful.

Check the slab thickness, if it is less than 6 inches without reinforcement that could be a contributing factor, and it could be sub grade failure due to overloading. It only takes one heavy truck to destroy a driveway.

I have seen the pavers used with success, but even with those, the sub grade is important and some grade beams may be required to prevent shoving on grades. The pavers are maintainable if there is a subsequent need to repair sections or excavate across the driveway if needed.

Best to you in getting an acceptable solution.

OR you could try some marston matting.

My guess is the slab thickness is

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

tree right next to the driveway isn't helping .

+1 to the tree.

[Danimal16]

The lower annotated area looks like an overload failure and overtime allows for water penetration to the sub grade, which is not good.

The upper area looks like a failed sub grade, with some mechanical lateral shoving of the slab.

I don't see much root damage, if that is a tree, as the slab is depressed nearest the edges.

If the other damage sections are similar you could repair by replacing those sections, with reinforcement and recompaction of the underlying base.

You won't be able to hydraulically jack that section, as it is broken up.

IMHO, asphalt will not be that aesthetically pleasing.

You may want to have an engineer look at the issue or better yet a reputable paving contractor.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by porsche tech

I had concrete that was cracking up pretty bad. We have so many trees around here that the roots wreak havoc on driveways. I decided to go with pavers which was a bit more expensive than concrete. However when it buckles up again which is inevitable, they just remove some pavers, cut out the roots and put the pavers back.

I went that route as well. My driveway is three cars wide, two leading to the two car garage and the third car width going down one side of the house to the backyard. The portion in front of the garage is maybe 50' deep.

We removed the original asphalt driveway and completely re-did the sub grade. The cost was easily double that of concrete. We didn't even consider asphalt.

I couldn't believe the number of tree and shrub roots we removed in the process. We like our trees and shrubs... The old asphalt was pretty buckled in places. Seeing all of those roots convinced us to go with the pavers. That was six years ago. I've already had to lift a few sections to go after more roots. Pretty easy DIY process, really. Thinking of what it would have cost to make similar repairs had we chosen concrete, I think we are already ahead.

Moss is the only downside in a damp environment like ours. Some people actually like the moss. I don't. Lotsa time with the rotary head on the pressure washer after killing it with first bleach, now vinegar.

[5495bb]

Stick with the concrete if you can or pavers if you can afford them. The thing people don't tell you about asphalt is that you have to seal in regularly. That's not cheap. In AZ I've got to do mine every 3 -4 years. It's about 3000 sq ft and it cost $950 to crack and top coat seal this year.