pelican relays

[Schrup]

I pesonally have a problem with buying tools with moving parts that are made in China. When I was pipefitting the difference between domestic & imported tools & materials was glaring. I believe in the old saying "you get what you pay for". It was well worth the extra money to not chase leaks. When it comes to my car, I want the best available, regardless of price. If Chinese parts are the only available, so be it. I believe refering to China as "land of many yellow people" to be racially insensitive. The term "yellow" is of the same nature as the word "colored" IMO. Maybe I'm too racially sensitive because I work for the goverment.

[1974carrera]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Straight from Bosch. They are now making them in China. Believe it or not, this is a BOSCH OEM part (pretty sure Bosch makes this)...

... I would guess that if you ordered a relay from Porsche, it might come in as "Made in Germany." Of course, orderiing directly from Porsche means that you will pay about twice as much for this relay. As it is, the cost of this thing is somewhat rediculous for the part that it is.

-Wayne

Out of curiosity, I checked out this relay when I was at my local Porsche dealer today. Sure enough, it said "Made in China" right on top of the relay, not "Made in Germany". The dealer's list price was $25.21...factor in the 20% discount they graciously provide and the price is $20.17. If I recall correctly, the Pelican price is $19.75.

[SpeedracerIndy]

Originally posted by pschrup
I believe refering to China as "land of many yellow people" to be racially insensitive. The term "yellow" is of the same nature as the word "colored" IMO.

I have to agree with you there. I was kind of suprised how long it took someone to point that out. I also think it is funny that we talk about how great made in the USA products are, yet complain how bad American cars are in another thread.

On the other hand, I do believe you get what you pay for.

[RoninLB]

" I do believe you get what you pay for. " X 3

I don't care where it's made..
but it takes big bucks for a bearing facility. and big bucks for it's research, blah, blah, blah..

maybe that's why I like Timkin........Ron

[Paul Franssen]

Yes, better late than never, I've always found the initial thread smacking of racial overtones and undercurrents...thought that was clear enough. As long as the world will not be on more or less "equal" terms (employment, income, standards), there's going to be "fluxes" of goods and services. Goods is simple enough: cheaper to produce in "A" than "B". Services: the same! Through the internet/email, just look at Hyderabad and call centers in India "Hi, this is Russ" (in fact it's Vishay)... Trouble is there's lotsa "institutions" (including ..extremist.. be it religious, other) doing everything in their power to prevent this stability-saving "equality" from ever becoming a reality. Mañana? Yes, tomorrow, maybe.

[MFAFF]

Missed a crucial point here guys....

Porsches are also made in Finland of all places... yep at least half of the Boxster production comes from the Valmet company...

Not sure if 911s are made there or not.

Talk about a high cost economy with socialist issues......

I think the policy of all manufacturers is to use locations where the price/quality/productivity equation works best.....

Otherwise why would BMW have built a new factory in the UK? for the new Rolls Royce.
Or Mclaren TAG built their HQ in the UK?

BMW built Z3s in the US and all the Merc ML SUVs are US built.....'cos it makes sense to build them in their biggest market.

As for Europe being 'laid back'...I must be in the wrong one....but there's alot of truth in what you say Wayne.

On a local level and in the private sector there is a lot of energy and spark, however the national institutions are more victim of labour laws etc which pulls us down.

From my years in the US it's not terribly different overall.

There are no European nations with as many Federal or National holidays as the US.....13 at last count. Which makes the average vacation allowance about the same.

Sure we have a national health services etc (which cost less as % of GDP than Medicaid BTW) and better unemployment benefits etc.

What we do have that is a step better than the US is education. Whilst the top end is broadly similar with top Universities and Schools, the average is better and Universites do not charge the scale of fees that the US ones do.

I think if you examined closely where items in our P-cars are made there would only be a small % that are built in Germany, some more from Europe, some from the USA and the rest form around the globe.

Each will meet the Porsche standards of the day...dare I suggest they may not be as high as before?, and the care and attention with which they are assembled will give the car its quality.

So, provided the item works well, is not out of standard spec, is not made in a exploitative (child labour etc) manner is there a real issue with where it comes from....beside the fact we would prefer our friends and family to benefit from the financial side of the whole thing?

A view from the otherside......

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by MFAFF

As for Europe being 'laid back'...I must be in the wrong one....A view from the otherside......

not an expert.. but IMO, the UK's culture will always provide a solid foundation to take advantage of opportunity ..............Ron

[Paul Franssen]

A slight interjection: Belgium's productivity is (said to be) as high as Japan's (and much higher than the US)(would a Pelicanite economist please confirm or deny that!). But the overall cost of labor is higher (I guess it's due to more extensive "social" benefits and the contributions and taxes making them feasable). In general, I think the comments from the U.S. are "influenced" (I express myself conservatively ) by terminology from the days of the cold war: I feel uncomfortable when European countries are referred to as being "socialist", especially in view of the stygma attached to that particular term in America. And, yes, they build Boxsters in Finland, a very expensive country. Maybe our Porsche people are not THAT inclined to LIKE going into cheap labor, I suspect they are anything but ...socialist. Maybe the modern factories and technology make up for the high cost of "labor"... I guess the truth is always somewhere in the middle. Look at it this way: nobody builds cars in Africa. Why? Lack of any kind of stability, of organization...

[Jim Sims]

BMW builds cars in South Africa. I was recently looking at a 325 in Santa Fe, New Mexico and the country of origin was listed as South Africa and the salesman confirmed it complaining that it took an extra month for shipping from the factory. Weren't we discussing relays? Jim

[304065]

"The plains of North America and Russia are our corn fields; Chicago and Odessa our granaries; Canada and the Baltic our timber forests; Australia contains our sheep farms, and in Argentina and on the Western prairies of North America are our herds of oxen; Peru sends her silver, and the gold of South Africa and Australia flows to London; the Hindus and the Chinese grow our tea for us, and our coffee, sugar and spice plantations are all in the Indies. Spain and France are our vineyards and the Mediterranean our fruit garden; and our cotton grounds, which for long have occupied the Southern United States are being extended everywhere in the warm regions of the earth."

-British Economist Jevons, 1865

[MFAFF]

Quite agree.

The good old British Emipe was a truely global entity...shame it all went T*ts up so where along the line.

Still gives us great nostalgia and an excuse to look bakc to the 'good old days'

Tottle-pip chaps...

[Early_S_Man]

To get this back on topic ... when did Bosch start making the round relays? All of the round red and black relays were made exclusively by Wehrle ... at one time!

Of course ... the last red ones I got didn't have a brand on them, just the stylized Porsche 'P' mark and the 'Made in China' marking! This sourcing for the fuel pump relay was was mentioned last year in the following thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=68478&highlight=chinese+red+relay

[Randy Webb]

China is where Japan was in the early 1960's. Made in Japan is a mark of quality now. Also, we aren't too worried about being wiped out economically by the Japanese now, are we? The same holds true for China. The US can compete with anyone (partly because we are "everyone' -- every ethnic group in the world lives here). If we can protect our education system from the short-sighted politicos who want to cut taxes all the time, we'll be fine.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Randy Webb

If we can protect our education system from the short-sighted politicos .

but the politicos cater to the NEA [Nat'l Ed Ass.] ,or also known as the Nat'l Extortion Ass.. LOL

[304065]

OT, but if the owner of the living room is here, I might as well offer the following link, to international comparative productivity stats, from our own US Bureau of Labor Statistics:

If you look at CHANGE IN (not absolute) manufacturing productivity per hour, since 1992, the USA is ahead of Belgium, but trails many other countries.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/prod4.t01.htm

This is not new news, the USA has been transitioning from a low-margin manufacturing economy to a high-margin service economy since the end of WWII. Now look at this, the GDP per capita, defined as the total value of goods and services generated without taking into account foreign trade:

http://www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/oiea/chartbook/chart1.htm

Hours worked:

http://www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/oiea/chartbook/chart19.htm

U.S. 19% more than France, for example.

[lendaddy]

"If we can protect our education system from the short-sighted politicos who want to cut taxes all the time, we'll be fine."

That IS funny, I didn't know this show was a comedy!

[Randy Webb]

Well, we are way past relays here, but I do want to respond re education. I'm not promoting the NEA but I do advocate for education -- a country full of ignoramuses will never have high productivity. "lendaddy" doesn't make a useful comment, but I assume he thinks that low taxes are more important than education. Guess again. Tho -- actually -- you won't be able to even make a good guess w/o an education. I specifically do NOT claim that the educ. "establishment" is really designed to educate people very well; instead, it'sa ll about feeling good about yourself and social promotion. But that isn't the point. Education costs money and so does basic research. We've lived for a long time on the capital investments we made from a fear of Sputnik -- we will fall behind if we don't invest.

[Schuey]

That China crap gets me too...everything I flip over is made in China...free trade really works...for China...

[mr.bch]

I once went to a boxing match and a discussion about fuel pump relays broke out...!

Oh, I could write volums about this, but, unfortunately (fortunately?) it is date night and I am not even supposed to be on the computer right now (sshhh!).

[Paul Franssen]

John Cramer from Hell's Kitchen (?!) thanks a lot for the links.
Wayne: thanks, too.
Yes, plenty OT...happy to drive a Porsche and that my kids' schools are good (gosh, they learn "more"-different, really- than I ever did in the old days!). Hell's Kitchen....Is that related to "Gangs of New York"? (I thought so...).