We are winning, and winning decisively - Page 4

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
You mean like those crazies that still, to this day, go around claiming that Saddam had an arsnel of WMDs? Those "poorly informed" people?

How about the ones that think WMDs are in Iraq today, but can't be found because they are "really small?"

How about the ones that insist, with zero evidence, that Saddam had operational ties to Al Queda?

Oh, you believe all those things ... never mind.

No the "poorly informed" are the crazies who know so little about what has or has not been found that they cannot even spell "arsenal" or do not realize that WMD are actually really small and easy to hide.... that, and their lethality are why they are so desirable to terrorists.

slakjaw · 11-28-2005, 05:54 AM

We are doing everything in our power to reinforce terrorism.

At least its working though.

Rodeo · 11-28-2005, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fintstone
WMD are actually really small and easy to hide....

Keep looking dude, you'll find them.

(fade to Twilight Zone music ...)

cool_chick · 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Since when is taking RESPONSIBILITY for oneself a "social repression stance?"

The USA has come a long way with "In God We Trust" on the back of the Dollar.....since it seems to have benfited evrybody so well in the past why take it off? It is going to hurt somebody feelings in the future...In this case I think the benfit of society is more important than somebodies feelings about God....See I can be a Liberal to....

Why in the world would you think taking responsibility for oneself is a social oppression stance? Where did you come up with that one? Or what is printed on money?

Try again.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 11-28-2005, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Considering that "your" past Presidental candidate (Kerry) voted for the war,

Joe A

WRONG! Read the resolution again. Don't rewrite history! Everyone voted to give bush the "option to go to war as a last resort." A blank check to be used when all else fails.

bush scribbled $300B on it and and cashed it IMMEDIATELY.

Neocons: president before Country = traitors to the ideals on which this Country was founded.

BTW, how's that amendment banning gay marriage coming? that was a big campaign promise. Liar.

Mulhollanddose · 11-28-2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cool_chick

In fact, he put it further down the pile than Clinton did (Clinton actually didn't ignore it, he tried covert operations, had Rudd-Hartmann conduct their report, handed that to Bush, etc., but that's another topic).

Clinton's coontribution to the war on terror consisted of constructing intelligence failures via the 9-11 comissioner Jamie Gorelick, bombing serbians (who were fighting islamofascists), failing to secure bin laden, and for some odd reason having Sandy Berger commit felonies to cover-up his criminality or incompetence.

Moral equivilence is for the intellectually deficient.

gavinlit · 12:03 PM

Fint
I agree that someone who is poorly informed would be the last to admit it but I suspect that's not the issue for either of us - rather that we read articles & probably find ideas/information that reinforces what we believe OR that we read articles that are clearly 'wrong' and 'biased'. I suspect we would both have the opposite view about most articles & that's just fine. The main difference I feel is that you show no respect for anyone with differing views, rather preferring to write them off as 'idiots' and many other adjectives that I'm not going to bother doing a search for. Granted that you're not as obnoxious as Mul but resorting to insults does generally show a lack of ability to argue a point.

As far as my posts go, yes I have been critical of many american policies and for good reason. Similarly I'm critical of many of my own countries policies. This does not mean that I'm anti american or anti australian. It simply means I don't agree with some of the policies. I have no beef with american people and find it amazing that some people would take personal offense or feel slighted. It's a policy thing not a personal thing.

If this type of stuff really upsets you then I suggest you need to broaden your mind a little and accept that there are always going to be people who disagree with any given policy - whether you support it or not. In many cases I'd be quite happy if people disagreed with my countries policies - indeed I'm ashamed of some of them. That's just the way it goes.

edit - spelling

island_dude · 11-28-2005, 12:47 PM

Lack of respect. You have hit the nail on the head. It is a sort of arrogance that somehow despite facts to the contrary that some subtle truth has escaped anyone who dares to disagree. Mul even goes as far as to rewrite history. I am losing any interest in these sorts of debates because they are ultimately just personal attacks. There is a mean spirited humor that they enjoy not unlike the Ann coulter's of the world, who like to take cheap shots in place of debating ideas.

So long as the neo-con crowd insist that any dissent from their views is treason and un-patriotic, there is little point in trying to have a productive dialog.

Rodeo · 11-28-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by island_dude
Lack of respect. You have hit the nail on the head. It is a sort of arrogance that somehow despite facts to the contrary that some subtle truth has escaped anyone who dares to disagree. Mul even goes as far as to rewrite history. I am losing any interest in these sorts of debates because they are ultimately just personal attacks. There is a mean spirited humor that they enjoy not unlike the Ann coulter's of the world, who like to take cheap shots in place of debating ideas.

So long as the neo-con crowd insist that any dissent from their views is treason and un-patriotic, there is little point in trying to have a productive dialog.

Two money posts in a row! Yep, arrogance and narrow-mindedness rule the day right now. These guys just swarm like a pack of wolves and try to intimidate and silence anyone that dares disagree with their worldview. Debate with an open mind is for wussies.

At least they come by their attitudes honestly -- from the Vice President of the United States.

CamB · CamB's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by fintstone
I'm not really sure what that means...but I am just doing my duty to inform liberals.

Toady = sycophant. I guess I'm referring to you working tirelessly to bolster the great Republican machine (I don't care if you think you're doing something else - I'm just calling it like I see it).

And if you're trying to inform or convert liberals, trawling the web to find the "best" information and publishing it here 5x a day is having a slightly negative impact on me. Anything worth reading is lost in the clutter - it all gets treated with suspicion.

I already think you're "winning" the war in Iraq (although it's not my definition of winning), and I think the mainstream media accurately conveys this. The articles you post are almost all biased - often heavily. I don't need to read about chest-thumping victories.

Otherwise, what Gavin said. I'd add that I try and recognise my own biases in reading articles and absorbing other information sources, although I'm not sure it works.

Nathans_Dad · Nathans_Dad's Garage

cool_chick · 11-28-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Cam--

While Fint certainly does his share of posting biased articles, I think the other side of the political aisle is just a guilty on this board...witness the following links:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=253540
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=252332
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=252991
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=252336
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=252459
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=252548
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=252750
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=252617

The worst offenders seem to be Shaun and Matt Holcomb...are they being "toady" as well?

What's biased about most of these?? Most of these are straight up news. A couple are opinions (which are biased) and mine has some bias, but the fact remains, the Iraqis are doing that....and what's so biased about reporting that?

How often does Flint post a news report and not someone's opinion?

Nathans_Dad · Nathans_Dad's Garage

Ok:

Bush is back on the bottle--nothing needs to be said here.

The long march of Cheney opens with "For his entire career, he sought untrammeled power. The Bush presidency and 9/11 finally gave it to him -- and he's not about to give it up."

Iraq's Oil, the Spoils of War-- You already admitted this was biased so I won't say anything more.

Neocons: Milgram Redux-- Did ya read that one? I guess the study itself isn't biased, but suggesting that it explains why conservatives act the way they do sure is...

Ok so to be fair, 4 of the 8 articles came from major news outlets (I won't play the "media bias" card either) but the manner in which they were presented could certainly be considered biased. Point still is that although Fint has gone a little overboard with the cut and pasting, both sides do it.

cool_chick · 11-28-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Ok:

Bush is back on the bottle--nothing needs to be said here.

The long march of Cheney opens with "For his entire career, he sought untrammeled power. The Bush presidency and 9/11 finally gave it to him -- and he's not about to give it up."

Iraq's Oil, the Spoils of War-- You already admitted this was biased so I won't say anything more.

Neocons: Milgram Redux-- Did ya read that one? I guess the study itself isn't biased, but suggesting that it explains why conservatives act the way they do sure is...

Ok so to be fair, 4 of the 8 articles came from major news outlets (I won't play the "media bias" card either) but the manner in which they were presented could certainly be considered biased. Point still is that although Fint has gone a little overboard with the cut and pasting, both sides do it.

Oh I agree, both sides do it. The funny thing is, I kinda hated the article I pasted, because I usually refuse to deal with biasedly presented...but the gist of the article is what I wanted to convey. It seems to validate what others have said for so long.....

But it's not often Flint pastes news.....it's usually some guy's biased opinion.

Rodeo · 11-28-2005, 02:03 PM

If it weren't for "Newsmax.com" Fint wouldn't have any opinions.

That site, by the way, may be the biggest pile of garbage on the internet. It would be like me posting nothing but Michael Moore stories all day.

CamB · CamB's Garage

Matt's got a Cheney shaped bee up his ass, and its just stuff I've already seen in the newspaper. Plus its been about 2x per week.

oldsam's "What is it about Republican Politicians" is, ironically, a mirror of Fint's:

What is it about Democratic Politicians?

Fint stands out because of his work ethic in making sure he posts them and tirelessly responds to anything critical of the current govt, etc, as well as making the shots against liberals/democrats. Plus, he works for the govt, so the toady bit feels a little justified.

(edit) plus, I never get the feeling Fint's posting for discussion. It seems to be more like propaganda (wrong word, really, but can't think of a better one).

Nathans_Dad · Nathans_Dad's Garage

Agreed that Fint has outproduced the more "progressive" voices lately, but it also seems that every time I log onto this BBS there is at least one "Republican's are evil" type thread going on the front page...perhaps some of Fint's motive is to balance out the liberals on the board...

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
If it weren't for "Newsmax.com" Fint wouldn't have any opinions.

That site, by the way, may be the biggest pile of garbage on the internet. It would be like me posting nothing but Michael Moore stories all day.

I could have sworn the two articles that I posted in this thread were from the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Times. What is it about liberals and telling the truth?

Mulhollanddose · 11-28-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
Keep looking dude, you'll find them.

(fade to Twilight Zone music ...)

Just because the restaurant had the appearance of being closed does not mean that the chef was not preparing the menu or compiling the ingredients for the next party.

Victor · 11-28-2005, 05:12 PM

Some of you guys should back away from your computer for a couple of weeks.

Saddam's trial has been delayed because someone took away his pen and paper. Hoot! What progress!