We are winning, and winning decisively

[CRH911S]

Quote me anytime you feel like it.

Why would anyone want to do that?

[RANDY P]

"Yawn..."

rjp

[on-ramp]

what this board needs is video conference.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by CamB
Fint, don't you feel like a bit of a toady posting several threads like this a day?

I'm not really sure what that means...but I am just doing my duty to inform liberals.

I give liberal posters here the benefit of doubt. They are either poorly informed, have an anti-American agenda.....or are just stupid. No reasonably informed person could have viewpoints expressed here. So i am trying to help.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by CRH911S
TABS, what are you smoking in that pipe? What is it about you neocons getting excited and saying stupid things in desperation?

I hear there is a plan to distribute toys to children in downtown Bagdad next week. Maybe you, Joe, and Fint will volunteer and give our troops some much needed rest with a day off?

Joe is "in-country" today and I travelled to the Pentagon today (I imagine you are enjoying your Holiday)...working on a program to make soldiers safer and more effective in the field (via technology). What are you doing to help tonight?

I would be happy to distribute toys in Bagdad and proudly volunteer.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by CRH911S
I hear there is a plan to distribute toys to children in downtown Bagdad next week. Maybe you, Joe, and Fint will volunteer and give our troops some much needed rest with a day off?

Glad to bucko, in fact I am about 400 miles away from Baghdad right this minute. You are going to join us arent you ? What, scared, no balls, too busy hugging trees? Whats the matter, you are not going to join us after all?

They put up a challenge and all of a sudden the liberals shrink into the woodwork...

Joe A

[RANDY P]

Hey Joe -

Happy holidays! Stay safe over there!

rjp

[CRH911S]

Glad to bucko, in fact I am about 400 miles away from Baghdad right this minute. You are going to join us arent you ? What, scared, no balls, too busy hugging trees? Whats the matter, you are not going to join us after all?

Well bucko, you might as well be in Texas having turkey with your president. Is 400 the best you can do?

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by CRH911S
Well bucko, you might as well be in Texas having turkey with your president. Is 400 the best you can do?

Dork.

rjp

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Joeaska
We will have won when you can come out of your basement and out in the open, then travel to a vacation spot of your choice and not worry about being killed by terrorists. Right now Spain, England, India, Indonesia and Malaysa cannot say this, as there have been strikes in each of their country by these fanatical idiots. They hit us first then found out that we got serious about security very fast and now are going to places where the security is not so strict.

Ok, I was really curious as to what the answer would be, because to be honest with you, I've been curious for a while as to what "winning" in Iraq would constitute....

Since you answered, I ask you this..... By winning Iraq, the above will be accomplished?

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Ok, I was really curious as to what the answer would be, because to be honest with you, I've been curious for a while as to what "winning" in Iraq would constitute....

Since you answered, I ask you this..... By winning Iraq, the above will be accomplished?

CC, we all hope that we can see an end of this situation. No one wants another Vietnam and I do not feel we are anywhere near that type of situation here.

Listen carefully on this point, and I am not bashing Clinton here. We lobbed a bunch of cruise missles in Bin Ladens direction and unfortunately it did not kill him but did really piss him off, as it would have done had someone tried to kill you or me. Now he sets off to attack America anywhere he can and if he cannot do that he attacks Western interests around the world. Had we done this successfully the first time we would still have terrorist cells but not anywhere near the scale that we see at this time.

You notice that almost all of the attacks were on Western facilities, with the exception of the train bombing in Spain, and that was done because of Spanish troops in Iraq. Of course within two days their balls sucked back inside their torso and recalled their troops. After this event the terrorists feel that they can change the course of history and thus get bolder. Result is more bombings but funny thing, the Spanish authorities are still finding terrorist cells in Spain. Bending over and spreading their cheeks to let the bad guys fork them a while when they pulled their troops home did not result in the same terrorists leaving, they just got bolder and planned more killings and bombings.

The only way for the world, and not just America to win this war on terror is to stand shoulder to shoulder and fight this. Its in almost every country in the world now, save possibly Burma, Korea, Iceland and Greenland. As well there is one important party that the world needs to bring to this fight. That party is the moslems who feel that the actions of these terrorists is wrong. Places like Indonesia and the Middle East will never be safe unless the locals put their foot down and say "this is not the way of the Koran and Allah," feel it in their heart and teach it in their schools and sermons as they worship.

The time required will depend a lot on if we have the help of the rank and file of the local moslem communities or not. Eventually the whole world will join in on this fight, they will be forced to as the terrorists move from country to country, where-ever the security is loosest. Was recently in Saudi Arabia and the changes in the last few years are really substancial, with roadblocks and police checkpoints EVERYWHERE. After the recent attacks they are looking for the terrorists and their weapons and have finally gotten serious about it. Germany has started doing the same as has Holland. England has been serious about it since day one, but the recent bombings "woke them up" and now they realize that they bad boys are in their back yard and are doing something about it. This is not just America's problem and the sooner the world realizes it, the better.

Also, lets not forget that copies of the Koran have been found in the Texas, New Mexico and Arizona desert, at known border crossing points for illegals coming into this country. They are not coming to make a better life for themselves as our ancestors did, they are coming to kill us and make a political statement at the same time. We need to realize that they are already among us, and right now. Unless found they will continue to attempt to kill us until either caught or they themselves are killed. We have a choice and its either to open our eyes here at home or suffer what has happened in England and other countries recently, more and more bombings or God forbid, a nuke or mass poisioning somewhere.

The terrorist cell found in the Dallas area was a man who was directly connected to Bin Laden, and who ran a tire repair shop. He was a very good example of a sleeper agent, one who lived his life in a totally legal and law abiding way, but who also left the country from time to time to train or aid Bin Laden. When the time would come for him to make himself and his group a martyr to Allah and Bin Laden he would have done so. We got lucky and found him. There are many many more of these cells in our country right now, just waiting for the right time and orders to proceed to their grisly plans to kill Americans.

To end this rather long winded post, to win in Iraq in my feeble mind would be to get a local government set up, elections and elected reps of their choice (and not done by terror as was done in Spain after the bombing) and our being able to turn the security of the country over to the Iraqi's so that our people can return home. To win the war on terror will take a long time. Hope that Iraq can be completed in the next year or so we can concentrate on the war on terror..

Joe A

[cool_chick]

Ok, so again, what's "winning" in Iraq? I'm serious about that. When do we know we "won?" How?

And BTW, those hopes unfortunately will probably not materialize.....they've made a military deal with Iran....their constitution is essentially setting up a theocracy, that country is probably going to end up being a worse threat in the long run. That's just my opinion.

And if you're going to blame Clinton, you really need to blame Reagan as well for training those guys and exchanging weapons, etc..... and blame Bush II for not making it a priority either until after 9/11. In fact, he put it further down the pile than Clinton did (Clinton actually didn't ignore it, he tried covert operations, had Rudd-Hartmann conduct their report, handed that to Bush, etc., but that's another topic).

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by CRH911S
Well bucko, you might as well be in Texas having turkey with your president. Is 400 the best you can do?

Its a lot better than you are doing. When are you going to have the guts to come over and join me? You are the one who brought up the idea of helping over here. Are your balls now sucking up inside your torso? I hear chicken noises in the distance and its coming from the direction of ANC!

Oh yea, I was in Doha Qatar and Bahrain for Thanksgiving. Closest I got to turkey was on base but they were out by the time we got there. Had to make do with a A&W cheesburger and root beer float. Assume in your cozy little hooch where you were safe and sound you had all the comforts of home? Remember that an American solder is out there somewhere around the world making sure that you can have and enjoy these, even for people who do not give a $hit like yourself. A real patriot...

Joe A

[cool_chick]

I'm grateful for the soldiers, but when Sheehan comes up, you guys make it clear they CHOSE to join....so since they CHOSE to join, what's the point of your post?

And honestly, what are soldiers doing right now that if they weren't doing, I would not be enjoying what I have?

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Ok, so again, what's "winning" in Iraq? I'm serious about that. When do we know we "won?" How?

And BTW, those hopes unfortunately will probably not materialize.....they've made a military deal with Iran....their constitution is essentially setting up a theocracy, that country is probably going to end up being a worse threat in the long run. That's just my opinion.

And if you're going to blame Clinton, you really need to blame Reagan as well for training those guys and exchanging weapons, etc..... and blame Bush II for not making it a priority either until after 9/11. In fact, he put it further down the pile than Clinton did (Clinton actually didn't ignore it, he tried covert operations, had Rudd-Hartmann conduct their report, handed that to Bush, etc., but that's another topic).

Everyone has their own version of whats "winning" but I already put down mine above. Saddam out of power (done), a local government, elected by their people (done, but somewhat shaky) and the military able to handle the security of the country (a lot of work to do here). Remember that these people have in most cases never had control over their future, so they are treading on new ground here. Its not going to be stable and all nice and fancy from day one. There is going to be dickering, conflict and it will probably not be stable from the outset. Thats why the West needs to help until they get up and on their feet.

Some people say that we have won already, just getting Saddam out, and I cannot disagree but as well had we done that and waltzed out the next week the situation would be a lot worse.

I did not blame Clinton, please read the post again! I simply said that had the job been done right and Bin Laden eliminated that we probably would not have been as it is now. As well I do not feel that we would have had the WTC disaster had Bin Laden been killed the first time. Blaming Clinton is not going to correct anything, nor is blaming Bush 1 or 2. The Clinton admin had several chances to kill/kidnap Bin Laden and did not act on it and that did not help. Blaming Reagan is not going to wash. Just because we train and equip a country who is our ally at this minute does not and cannot guarantee that they will remain our ally in the future. We have to act on the situation right now, not what it could be in the future.

I do direct some blame on Bush 1 for stopping 100 miles outside of Baghdad and not taking Saddam out at that time, but it was his call.

Joe A

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by cool_chick
I'm grateful for the soldiers, but when Sheehan comes up, you guys make it clear they CHOSE to join....so since they CHOSE to join, what's the point of your post?

And honestly, what are soldiers doing right now that if they weren't doing, I would not be enjoying what I have?

Not going to go on like this all day my dear, its 0900 in the morning here and I am an hour past bfast! I know that its past 1 AM for you and you are up having your favourite adult beverage but I am getting hungry!

Throw Sheehan out of the picture, she is a pawn and being maneuvered by people who are using her for their political means. If we did not have people like this who choose to join then we would have to have a draft and wonderful specimens like CRH911 would have to do his duty and serve.

Lets go back a while, like WW2. Had we not had the military and the citizens behind them, we would probably be speaking German and Japanese now. I speak German and its not an easy language like Spanish, be happy. Fast forward to when you and I grew up and the Cold War. Had the Soviets had control they would have walked over us. They did not install nuke missles in Cuba for giggles, these were offensive, not defensive weapons.

Without the military to protect this country we would be open for anyone and everyone to do as they please. When America was formed and founded there was no question of if we needed a military, the British made us very aware of that fact.

If we had not rebelled we could still be paying a tax to the Queen of England, playing cricket, drinking tea or warm beer and stale chips (french fries) and driving English cars (oh wait, I have a couple of those) instead of our wonderful 911's. (you really need to get one of those!) In the early days our military made the Brits realize that we wanted to have control of our lives, and fought them for it. American military died for both you and me to have the ability to do as we wish in this wonderful country and we all too soon forget it much of the time.

Time to eat, will chime back in later today if I get access to the net.

JoeA

[tabs]

Originally posted by cool_chick


the right's social oppression stance....

Since when is taking RESPONSIBILITY for oneself a "social repression stance?"

The USA has come a long way with "In God We Trust" on the back of the Dollar.....since it seems to have benfited evrybody so well in the past why take it off? It is going to hurt somebody feelings in the future...In this case I think the benfit of society is more important than somebodies feelings about God....See I can be a Liberal to....

[gavinlit]

"They are either poorly informed, have an anti-American agenda.....or are just stupid"

One day I may be old enough and wise enough to ignore insulting generalisatios from idiots but I'm afraid I'm just not there yet. For the record I'm not:
(a) an idiot
(b) hanging onto an anti-American agenda
(c) poorly informed

but I do happen to disagree with most of your postings. Go figure.

Edit - in spite of all that I hope you and all the other lovely people in the US had an enjoyable thanksgiving.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by gavinlit
"They are either poorly informed, have an anti-American agenda.....or are just stupid"

One day I may be old enough and wise enough to ignore insulting generalisatios from idiots but I'm afraid I'm just not there yet. For the record I'm not:
(a) an idiot
(b) hanging onto an anti-American agenda
(c) poorly informed

....

If a person is poorly informed....wouldn't they be the last to know? Generally speaking, that is the definition of "poorly informed." Secondly, if they knew, would they admit it?

As far as anti-American....based on your posts here, you certainly are not supportive of many US policies. Don't you think that if someone posted as negatively about Australia....you would likely feel slighted?

I'll give you the first. You are no idiot....but there are quite a few that share your politics.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by fintstone
If a person is poorly informed....wouldn't they be the last to know? Generally speaking, that is the definition of "poorly informed."

You mean like those crazies that still, to this day, go around claiming that Saddam had an arsnel of WMDs? Those "poorly informed" people?

How about the ones that think WMDs are in Iraq today, but can't be found because they are "really small?"

How about the ones that insist, with zero evidence, that Saddam had operational ties to Al Queda?

Oh, you believe all those things ... never mind.