Tithing

[coloradoporsche]

IMHO, if people really followed the teachings of Jesus, they'd give 90% to charity and keep 10% for basic needs.

Instead, people give a small percentage of what they make to charity and spend the rest on living large. Yet they sleep well at night thinking that god is blessing their lives because they gave a token gesture at the mega-church on Sunday.

Seems hypocritical to me, but then again, I’m just a sinner. No juice and cookies for me.

[RallyJon]

Ideally, a church should have a well managed, income-producing endowment, built up over years, like any other non-governmental public institution. Could be a problem when your priest starts in on the alterboys and the church gets sued, of course. I'm sure that these days churches are finding ways of separating and protecting those assets from opportunistic lawsuits.

Where does the endowment come from? Wealthy parishioners. Money left to the church in estates. Local businesses.

Other inoffensive ways of generating income is with explicit services and social fundraisers, such as schools, bake sales, white elephant sales, etc.

And of course, you can pass the basket, in moderation.

Anything more than that, and a church crosses the line from God's house, to the fee-for-service God show. Why not just charge admission every Sunday? Get yer tickets here! I got a pair right up front, but they'll cost ya'!

[legion]

Originally posted by Superman
This is one of the many reasons why I remain Catholic. I have heard folks say that Catholics are given a guilt trip. I don't see that....AT ALL. Particularly compared to the "protestant" churches which see considerably more focused on money and clothes. I have gone to Mass in cutoffs with empty pockets many times.

And see, a good friend of mine is Catholic, and complains that the tithe at her church is 11%. A good portion of every sermon there is devoted to reminding the 'good Catholics' in attendance that the 11% tithe is not a choice.

It comes down to the specific church. Catholic or protestant, both can be equally guilty and equally not guilty.

[indigowhale]

Tithing is supported biblically for the Israeli who lived under the old covennant. If your are tithing, I hope you are not leaving the animal sacrifices out. Just make sure not to leave any evidence laying around. And don't eat shrimp.

Why is it that some can pick and choose what they want out of the old covennant but leave the rest out?

And yes, many churches require a tithe, once the people become members. They tithe for while and if their giving drops off, they will be approached by a church leader in private to see what is going on and "how they can help". Others just coerce the members into tithing and this is more effective--no maintenance required.

Today's churches can thrive financially by living in the new testament. No need to resort to the old, God did not forget this detail. However, if you choose to tithe, that is your business.

[Eric 951]

Originally posted by IROC
I don't think anyone's church is demanding a tithe. I would hope that churches didn't do that. I think the word "demanded" is not accurately depicting what my in-laws are being subjected to. I think it is more of what I would call "subtle coercion".

Mike,

There is quite a large church group that requires a 10% tithing in order to be considered "devout". If one doesn't tithe, they are barred from doing certain things within the church--going to tabernacles, being married within, etc.--never mind that this church has millions in real estate holdings--mostly in SLC.

Yes--they are the Latter Day Saints/ Mormons.

I spent some "time" in Logan, Utah--and being non-LDS--it felt like prison time. Although I did learn an awful lot about the religion from co-workers who insisted on filling my day with the teachings of their church--unsolicited, of course.

[Eric 951]

Oh, and since we are on the subject:

[vash]

that story in the bible where the begger flips a few pennies into the dish and the rich merchant tosses in a chunk of cashola. and Jesus ask, "who gave more?". i think the moral of the story is for us to empty the bank accounts.
i went to this church once to support a friend's program. ok, i went during the holidays. the plate went around, and i turned around to see what happened to it. i kid you not, they emptied the dishes into these armored pushcarts, and they were escorted off with big huge guys wearing dark suits and those ear pieces you see SWAT running around with. it was un-nerving.

[Nathans_Dad]

I don't know what churches you people are attending that act this way. I suspect that many of you who are choosing to bash Christianity on this thread don't even attend church.

How is it that bashing Christianity has become a favorite pastime in the US? Why is it that a thread like this, that paints Christians as money grubbing hypocrites out to bilk Grandma out of her grocery money, exists without any outcry?

Would the response be the same if a thread were starting demanding that the International Federation for Gay and Lesbian Rights stop asking for donations? How about the NAACP? Or the ACLU? These organizations send out MAILERS asking for money. When is the last time any church sent out mass mailers to the public asking for donations?

I would really love to know how you guys think a church is supposed to survive. They don't get government money, apparently it is "evil" to ask their members to support them, so what is left?

[RallyJon]

When is the last time any church sent out mass mailers to the public asking for donations?

Want me to scan it?

[Nathans_Dad]

Sure, scan it. And please remember the definition of mass mailer. You have not attended the church and are not affiliated with them in any way.

You know, the ones that say "To the current resident at:"

Seriously, scan it in and post it.

[RallyJon]

As I posted, it was sent to me from our local church. Isn't that offensive enough? It has payment coupons. If you're looking for national mailings, you should probably concentrate on the televangelists.

[Nathans_Dad]

Well, Jon, if you find that offensive then....

um.....

Find another church?? Perhaps the church you are going to focuses on money too much. I would think it would be much better to find another church that suits your beliefs rather than bash all of Christianity on a public forum...but that's just me.

And again, I would ask that you show me an example of a mass mailer sent out by a Christian church. Don't get started on the televangelists, many of them are just in it for the money. Don't fall into the trap of lumping Benny Hinn in with all of Christianity.

That's like lumping Louis Farrakhan in with all Democrats.

[RallyJon]

Well, of course, Rick, that's exactly what I'm saying, from my first post on this thread. Being an occasional church goer at best in the past, it never even occurred to me that a normal (non-Pat Robertson, not located in the bible-belt) church could be so superficial and tawdry. Call me naive I guess.

[Nathans_Dad]

Jon churches are not religion. Churches are made by man. Many churches are excellent institutions and provide aid and comfort to the people in their communities. This does not mean that all churches are this way.

I live in the "Bible Belt" and have NEVER come across a church that made me feel the way this church makes you feel. I don't know the church or you, so it's tough to say whether that church is truly out of bounds or whether you took their "coupon book" the wrong way. My church sends us a statement every quarter of what our tithes are. I keep it for tax purposes. I don't take it as a signal that they want more money. Perhaps that is because I know the pastor and I know that is not his intent.

There are people out there in every walk of life who want to take advantage of their fellow man. Religion is no different. I don't associate with the Tammy Faye Bakers of the world and I don't think what they do represents my faith.

It saddens me to see how PC religion bashing has become in our country. In a place where you cannot talk about any racial, gender, non-Christian religious or sexual group without being called a bigot, somehow everyone piles on to the Christians.

[Vipergrün]

"Jesus saves"......"Gretzky scooooorrreeeesss"

My church does not pass an offering plate, they have boxes at the exit with slots you can slide an envope in if you desire, no strong arming. I personally believe that you can tithe in other ways, such as taking your ski boat on a chuch waterski trip, hosting a study, or whatever. I typically go to Calvary Chapel if anyone is curious. I am sure some of you will be surprised I attend church

[Instrument 41]

As a Christian we tithe simply because its something that we want to do. And sometimes, when funds are available we give more to a specific cause. Its kinda like your P cars, you put money into it because you love it, appreciate what it does for you(stress reducer after hard day), and for some, its what you worship. For myself I am very thankful that the Lord has been pleased to save me from hell. I can look on the past and see where he guided my decisions. If anyone could do that for you, you would certainly give. Where your heart is, there also is your money. Also,as mentioned earlier the tithe is used for needs of the building and salaries for those that serve full and part time in the church.

[Nathans_Dad]

Thank you Instrument and BB. These viewpoints are more in line with what I have experienced. Tithing is a personal decision. Yes, the plate is passed in my church but there isn't any "pressure" that I feel to put money in that plate. In fact, we give a check every month so 3 weeks out of 4 we just pass the plate right along.

If you are truly feeling pressure then I would say it is either A) the church is truly focusing on money too much and needs to get back to its true priorities or B) you are being too sensitive about the issue and need to realize that churches rely on their member's gifts and offerings to survive.

[vash]

God damn, nathan's dad. you are one sensitive dude. some of us are bashing christianity, just like on another thread where we are pointing out the folly of showing up in mass quantity to toss rocks at a wall. i dont bash christianity at all. like i said, i went to support a friend's singing debut. she invited me, and a bunch of us heathens showed up. we didnt roll our eyes, breath heavy, etc. i enjoyed the show, enjoyed how they throw the music up with a powerpoint presentation, so we can sing along. it was fun. just not really my thing.

back in the day, we were given envelopes to put our $$ in. it used to strike me odd, how on the envelope there was a line for us to pencil in our names. i gotta admit, the dish stayed in front of me, until i antied up. chill out. it is OK that we all dont think like you.

oh o, you ready for this? this church had alot of homosexuals in the congregation.

[Nathans_Dad]

Never said that I thought it wasn't ok for everyone to not think like me. I was just pointing out that people tend to think it is ok these days to pile onto Christians while it is not ok to pile onto other groups that are considered PC like gays, minorities, women, etc.

Simply pointing out the double standards in our nation today.

Prime example from this BBS: Mul posted a picture of John Wayne with the word "raghead" on it referring to Muslims. Creaturecat jumped all over him immediately. Funny though, no one defended the Christians on this thread until I showed up.

[vash]

good point! i am guilty of the double standard.

let me add, funny story: i went with a buddy to his church. he brought an uncle. and older chinese guy. buddist, totally out of his element. well the tithing time came up. this church passed around a cloth bag. it got to the old man, and for no apparent reason he reached in and pulled out a check and read it. he looks at it and screams,"NO WAY!". i almost peed on myself laughing.