Winchester guns is closing

[kach22i]

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15948738&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=566835&rfi=6

"The market has not been kind to us," DeMennato said, speaking about a 50 percent decrease in production at the facility because of a lack of demand.

[tabascobobcat]

I had better hurry and go get a couple more.

[fastpat]

I just heard this this afternoon at my local gun dealer. He says, "you'd better keep that Model 94 you just bought, there won't be any more.

In fact, I just bought a Model 9422 in .22 L.R., color case hardened receiver, 20 inch barrel and a model 94 in .45 Colt, color case hardened receiver, 20 inch octagonal barrel. Both very well made. Here's a couple of photos, first the Mdl. 94, then the model 9422.





Well made arms, both of them. I'm going to order another model 94 on Monday in a fairly uncommon caliber, and then I'll have to be happy I guess.

[kach22i]

Is this factory closing the result of international competition?

Did the workers make painful concessions too late to save the American factory?

Has lifting the ban on assault rifles in many states hurt regular rifle sales?

I don't know a lot about this topic and how these manfacturing jobs differ from making washer and dryers or automobiles.

[RoninLB]

there was intense legal cost spending that was well written about a few years ago. It almost bankrupt for a few of them. I don't have hard info on what's happening now with W.

[scottmandue]

Wouldn't this be a good time for the government to step in (not that I'm a big fan of that) to save this historically significant American Icon like when they bailed out Harley Davidson?

And yes I know saving a gun manufacturer would raise a few eyebrows and it wouldn't save nearly as many jobs as Harley.

How about we contract them to do a run of commemorative hand guns to be presented to all U.S. military officers, that should keep them afloat for awhile.

[Moses]

I was at the Winchester mansion in San Jose last weekend. Maybe Mrs W. will rest easy now. That lady was a few bricks short of a load.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by kach22i
Is this factory closing the result of international competition?

No. The only company of which I'm aware that competes is Uberti, an Italian maker. Their guns, such as the model 1873 lever action, cost more than Winchesters.

Did the workers make painful concessions too late to save the American factory?

Don't know. Doubt it.

Has lifting the ban on assault rifles in many states hurt regular rifle sales? I don't know a lot about this topic and how these manfacturing jobs differ from making washer and dryers or automobiles.

That's an interesting question, although you might be off by a couple of degrees. I was talking to my wife about this, she knew before I did because she read it in the newspaper this morning. The purchase of guns before the Gun Control Act of 1968 was mostly rifles and shotguns. Handguns were available, but were on the back burner of gun sales, that continued for several decades. As talk, and action in some cases, of handgun bans, became more intense more and more handguns were sold. Then, beginning in 1987 with Florida (well before Bush) modern concealed carry passed in a highly populated state as a response to out of control crime in metropolitan areas and handgun sales took off. As more and more states revised their formerly tight control on concealed carry, that generated more sales of handguns. Two additionalAn additional government action further increased handgun sales, the Assault Weapon Ban of 1994, which reduced magazine capacity to 10 rounds. That law, and the increased sophistication of concealed weapons carriers generated the smaller, lighter handguns specifically tailored for concealed carry. That expanded the handgun market.

All of the above took away from the traditional market for long guns. The day when you could go into your local hardware store and buy a Winchester Model 94 for $75.00 (the price in the late 50's) is long passed. Bill Clinton upped the Federal Firearms license fee to $200.00 for three years, something the federal government promised they'd never do, and George Bush has failed to lower it, meaning that more and more expensive firearms are required to pay for expenses. That's lots of handguns, and near custom rifles in the $1000.00 range and up.

Those are my observations, too bad really, I'd rather buy a model 94 instead of an M16, but these days I feel the need for the latter a lot more than the former.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Wouldn't this be a good time for the government to step in (not that I'm a big fan of that) to save this historically significant American Icon like when they bailed out Harley Davidson?

Absolutely not. I really like the current Winchester products, but I'd not advocate such action under any circumstances.

And yes I know saving a gun manufacturer would raise a few eyebrows and it wouldn't save nearly as many jobs as Harley.

Irrelevant. If the product isn't competitive, which I'd dispute, then it deserves to be gone. I'd hope someone buys the rights, plant, and continues the line, but if not, ce la vie.

How about we contract them to do a run of commemorative hand guns to be presented to all U.S. military officers, that should keep them afloat for awhile.

Oh, I want mine. I'm still an officer.

Not.

I'm ordering one more model 94 come Monday, not for speculation, but to shoot. If they continue, great, if not, too bad. Not one dime of stolen money should head their way as a bailout.

[scottmandue]

Well... we have enough gun nuts on this board maybe if we pooled our resource's...

Possibly we could cut a deal with Wayne to sell the guns through PP.

[yellowline]

DeStefano said recovering those losses is not the top priority. What is needed now, he said, is to attract a company that is willing to take on the Winchester brand of guns. DeMennato said the company has been speaking with other firearms manufacturers about a possible deal, but declined to provide any details.

Let's hope that another American company buys them out.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by yellowline
Let's hope that another American company buys them out.

Maybe BMW and Beretta can work out a partnership and make them here in South Carolina. Business climate is right, gun respect and tolerance is right, and there's plenty of european experience here; Michelin's world headaquarters is here now; and of course BMW.

[azasadny]

Wow! How sad! Is Browning next?

[ChrisBennet]

That's sad. First Ithaca and now this.
>Wow! How sad! Is Browning next?
Does Browning even make guns or do they just have other people make the (FN makes the HiPower, etc).
Trivia: Beretta is the worlds oldest company and I don't mean the oldest gun company. Beretta has been around for over 400 years.
-Chris

[Jeff Higgins]

The New Haven plant has actually not been owned by Winchester, or the new foreign conglomerate that owns the "Winchester" name, for decades. U.S. Repeating Arms bought the plant and has been supplying '94's and '70's under license. Other Winchester products have been coming from overseas for quite some time. In light of that, I'm not sure this will mean the end of prodution for the New Haven produced models. Both remain strong sellers in the rifle market. They will probably continue to be produced overseas, maybe after a short lag in production.

Fastpat, I'm not sure that rifle and handgun sales are all that closely related. I think the phenomena we are seeing relates to the urbanization of America more than anything else. Fewer people are hunting; expressed as a percentage of population, numbers are lower than ever in our history. No one buys '94's and '70's primarily for self defense, although a pistol caliber '94 is great to have in the closet. Urbanites that are allowed by law to carry buy handguns. Increasing urban popultions + increasing concealed carry states = increase in handgun sales. I'm not sure that folks buying these handguns would be buying rifles in their stead if they could not have their handguns.

Winchester, as far as I know, was never targeted by the lawsuits. The lawsuits filed against the firearms industry focused on the handgun manufacturers. Winchester has never manufactured any dreaded "assault rifles" either (although a good man with a '94 would put anyone with an AR15 to shame, but that's another story...), so I don't believe they were targeted there.

I think it really boils down to poor management and a reluctance to invest in their facilities. While U.S. Repeating Arms did much to modernize the old plant and improve manufacturing efficeincy, it probably was not enough. Colt went through the same thing and actually went bankrupt and changed hands a couple of times. Time will tell with Winchester; hopefully the parent company establishes manufacturing of these models elswhere, or another investor moves in at New Haven.

[FrayAdjacent911]

I picked up a 94 Trapper Carbine in .357. Great handy little rifle, but honestly the action is a bit sloppy, and the trigger isn't very nice. I worked on it a little bit, and got the trigger a little better, but the action is still sloppy.

The imports and even Marlin rifles appear to be more solid, even if they are more expensive.

Cowboy action shooting is growing rapidly, so one would think that Winchester, the Gun that Won the West would make a proud showing, but I think it's the relatively poor quality that has shooters going to other brands.

[Rick Lee]

My old man has hanging on his wall a real, excellent condition 1866 Winchester lever-action in .44. It will be mine when the folks move to their beach house and want the guns away from the salt air. He also has a pump-action .22, which I got him as a Father's Day gift when I was about 10 yrs. old. Back then it was $75. Now I see them for around $800 at gun shows.

[tabs]

Top price EVER paid for a Winchester 1866 was $687,000.00. At the time it was a record for a Winchester.....

FN/Browning is the foreign owner of Winchester... Winchester in recent years has been recreating their Golden Oldies...and JH is right there are less and less people hunting, thus the need for Winchester products has declined...

[tabs]

If I had my choich in buying a Winchester to put away it wouldn't be a 94....they have made MILLIONS of them...A better choich would be a 1886 or 1895...

[jdlowery]

I'm thinking about getting a model 94 chambered in 45 colt. My choices are Legacy 24, Trails End Blue round 20, Trails End Blue octagonal 20, Trails End case-colored octagonal 20, or Trapper. Which of the above models would be the better selection? I'm not big on hunting so I would probably just take it the range to shoot.

Thanks,