Sell or Keep another valuable car, advise needed

[svandamme]

tough call , but wouldn't sell a DB4 if i owned one , i'd sell my kids before i'de sell the DB4, true i don't have kids, and i'll even admit that it's probably a good thing that i don't have kids... but man , that car is probably in better shape then when it left the factory... it's gorgeous and so what if it's impractical , so is my targa in the non CA weather over here... and my targa , just like your DB4 , by selling it , i could be more comfortable financially, but i won't , not unless they put a gun against my head first...

[Rufblackbird]

owning a car for 34 years? Damn, that's a long time. There'd be so many memories that I wouldn't consider selling it unless there was some sort of life threatening situation... Of course, if there's no sentimental value, then by all means go for it. Beautiful car, by the way.

[Decolliber]

The most striking point in your initial posting was that you are getting little enjoyment out of the car any more after 30 some years of ownership. The novelty has worn off, you drive it infrequently, you fear the maintenance costs, and you have other pressing financial needs.
Reminds me of the 5 years that I owned a Piper Cherokee in the early 1990s. The two best days of ownership were the day I bought it and the day I sold it. It was a money pit, I did not fly it much, and I had a daughter getting ready for college.
One problem here is the fallacy of sunk cost. We erroneously make decisions on the basis of how much we have sunk into an activity rather than what we expect to get out of it in the future.
Sell it. You can always buy another, or something else, once the children are through college etc.
Both my children finished college in the past 3 years and I am amazed at how much more disposable income I have for cars & travel. But take a look at the current NYT article (on web site) about "the bank of mom & dad." It may be hard to wean them.

[real550A]

What investment fantasy world are you living in? That would take returns of 55% to 150% annually for all 5 years.

Tom-
It's not a fantasy. I think I spelled it out pretty clearly.
The last three years in oil stocks have seen gains above your figure of 55%. Some I know of are exceeding 84% this year.
Like I said, do your DD, and enjoy!

[svandamme]

Mike, i'm not doubting that some did see 84% increase on a certain portfolio , but i seriously doubt that anybody can maintain 84% average over 5 years...definately not with the simple tactic of "buy oil shares!"

if that would be true , then ever dingbat on any stock exchange would be buying those and retire in 3 years ( one can safely assume that those guys will have had a headstart on things over us common citizens of the financial worlds ) and then that bubble would blow at year 3 of our investment... woops..

nevertheless, i don't think there has ever been any precedent , of any market that could perform at 84% sustained per year over a 5 year period

figures like do not add up

if it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is
that rule never failed so far

[real550A]

Investing & trading pennies is not for the faint of heart, or the "every dingbat on any stock exchange", and I never intended that everyone could.
My point is, that an investment of $120,000. today should far outpace the appreciation of ANY collectible automobile in the next five years.
By the way, there are some quality issues on the BB that are producing returns of 2000% since last Oct.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Another way to look at it, would you borrow $130k for a DB4? Because essentially, that's what you're doing. It sounds like you make a great living, and have a very comfortable lifestyle, but you can't come up with $500 for a BBQ grill? Not trying to be an ass, but something needs to change. Anyone that makes what I'm assuming you make has no excuses for having credit card debt or monthly cash flow problems. Sell the DB4, pay off the debt, but then take a good hard look at your life. Money problems are a hard thing to deal with, and the leading cause of divorce in the US. Wouldn't it be nice to rid yourself of that burden? You need to figure out how to have more coming in than going out, and that may take some sacrifice. If you just sell the car, pay off the debt, then keep on with your lives, in a few years you'll be back in the same spot.

If what I say vibes with you, check out Dave Ramsey. He has several books, and a very popular radio show, I'm sure somebody in LA on AM carries it. If not, feel free to disregard everything I said, and no offense intended.

[trj911]

Originally posted by real550A
Tom-
It's not a fantasy. I think I spelled it out pretty clearly.
The last three years in oil stocks have seen gains above your figure of 55%. Some I know of are exceeding 84% this year.
Like I said, do your DD, and enjoy!

Anyone can tell you what WAS a good investment. For the three years prior 2002 oil company stocks were down 50%, were you saying buy them then? My point is, you make it sound very easy to achieve 80%+ returns. Share some of your stock picking wealth with me. I would love to have returns like that.

[turbo6bar]

$120k to $1M in 5 years... Try to help the guy with his decision. He doesn't need comedic relief.

[Hugh R]

Matt

Yeah, I make a good living, I notice you live in Kansas. Average house price in LA is $560K for a 1950's 3 bd/1.5 bath house. Property tax on said house is 1.25% or $7000/year. How about $25-30K per year for daughters college at an in-state tuition school. Its a short term cash flow problem, (short term meaning another 3-5 years) while I finish putting her and her brother through college. Saying I can't afford a $500 bbq is perhaps a little melodramatic, but between state and Federal income tax, property, vehicle social security, etc., etc. taxes I pay out in the neighborhood of $70K in taxes every year. Also in California, property taxes are due in April, along with the Federal and state income taxes. We live real frugally. I understand the economics of the $130k loan, for the DB4 which I would never do, I bought the Targa with cash. That's exactly my dilemma, its not like its a $5 or $10k toy, it represents a non-trivial portion of my net worth. I very diversified in the market for my retirement, and I've put money away for retirement every year for the last 26 years (although you can never put away enough).

[island911]

I don't think you can try to "turn it around" and say "would you buy it for..." -- there is too much history there. Perhaps you could ask "how much would you buy it BACK for?" . . if you had sold it.

Clearly, and understandably, you have an emotional attachment . . and that is conflicting with your pragmatics. --that is a real tough one for you to assess. . . even tougher for any of us. What's your wife think? She may have the needed insight.

[motion]

Sell it. Do the smart thing with the proceeds. You'll get over it soon enough. Its just a hunk of metal. Your life is more important.

[Tervuren]

I think perhaps the problem with the car - is where you live. Is moving away, taking a lower income job, or something similar an option? Move where you can enjoy the car, and if you've got desireable real estate currently, you might profit from the move as well.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by island911
I don't think you can try to "turn it around" and say "would you buy it for..." -- there is too much history there. Perhaps you could ask "how much would you buy it BACK for?" . . if you had sold it.

Clearly, and understandably, you have an emotional attachment . . and that is conflicting with your pragmatics. --that is a real tough one for you to assess. . . even tougher for any of us. What's your wife think? She may have the needed insight.

The emotional attachment factor is a big one. Having bought my car back in '74, I can certainly identify with that. Like Hugh, I'm simply not enjoying the car as I once did...but when I contemplate selling, I worry about it ending up in the hands of strippers, flippers, or pimps...those abound in the collectible cars market these days. So, I contemplate crushing it when I'm too feeble to drive that would at least keep it out of the hands of these vultures & braggarts.
Then is when Cindy interjected: "If you care about who buys the car that strongly, then you care about the car enough to just keep it."
I married a wise woman.
Terven's thought is also something to consider. I mean, just how attached are you to the southern California lifestyle?

[Hugh R]

I do motion picture and television production safety for a major movie studio. I don't think I can do that in Idaho. But thanks for the suggestion.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hugh, glad to hear that you can afford that BBQ. Seriously though, it sounds as if you really don't enjoy the car as an actual car all that much, more as a work of art. Unfortunately, it doesn't do a car any favors having it sit with a rope around it. If you don't derive $130k worth of pleasure out of it, I would say sell it. Less debt is always a good thing, good for the blood pressure. It should make the crunch of the next few years much easier on your family.

I know So Cal prices are insane, I have a friend that lives in Orange Co. Is the $25-30k for a public in-state school? Try maybe $5k or less per year for in-state in KS. I don't know how you guys deal with it, Kansas sucks, but at least it's cheap.

[pwd72s]

I'll buy it RIGHT NOW...for $75

[tabs]

I'll give $76.00 for it? RIGHT NOW CASH!!!!!