Jesus was

[Milu]

Paul was responsible for much christian thought. I'm suprised no one quoted him in the circumcision thread

[IROC]

Originally posted by sammyg2
Hm, Elaine said it so it must be true.
One professor makers a claim that is contrary to the understanding of millions and you choose to agree with her instead of everyone else. Well There ya go. Now it all makes sense.

You obviously didn't read the link. There were so many quotes from Biblical scholars questioning the validity of the gospels that it wouldn't let me paste them all in. I only pasted the first one.

Mike

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by IROC
You obviously didn't read the link. There were so many quotes from Biblical scholars questioning the validity of the gospels that it wouldn't let me paste them all in. I only pasted the first one.

Mike

I know a guy who sometimes barks at the moon, which means nothing other than he is crazy. I am not calling these so-called "Biblical scholars" crazy, just wrong, or using the unverifiable as proof of their assertions. Their agenda I know not, but I do know they won't be the first to bring an agenda or their arguments to attempts at manufacturing doubt of Biblical authenticity...The largest amount of objective scholarship validates Biblical authenticity.

The question is the divinity of Christ, not the fact that Jesus existed. Many Jews saw Jesus, knew Jesus and reported on what they saw -- this is without question...These witnesses to Jesus existed at a time that high value was placed on accuracy and inaccuracy would simply be forgotten in the author's humiliation.

What is also without question is the world changed, shifted if you will, even changing the way we regard time, upon the death of Christ...Jesus was maybe just a blip on the prophet radar, but there is no doubt he had the most profound and lasting effect. No other prophet, to this day, evokes the amount of passionate reaction that Jesus does...This suggests to me that Jesus was much more than just an ordinary man, nay, he was indeed the Son of God.

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by IROC
You obviously didn't read the link.

At your behest, I have gone to nobeliefs.com. My response is ... shock. You would quote these people in a serious intellectual discussion? (eyebrows very raised) Richard Feynman on "Cargo Cult Science?" Jim Walker on "The Problem with Beliefs?" A whole list of blatantly anti-Christian articles, including the cliche association with Hitler and the "Dark Bible," which pulls verses out of context and mocks them?

Come now, Mike, you're an educated man -- you can do better than this tabloid-grade stuff.

Dan

[trekkor]

Originally posted by livi


What do you need Jesus for ? What does a Jesus figure do for you that I miss out on for not believing ? Does it make you a better human being ? Does it make the world a better place ? If so - why ?

Without the ransom sacrafice of Jesus man would continue on with no hope. Life would just be a cycle of death.
The ransom make available to mankind the opportunity to live forever the way God had intended in the Garden.

Man get's to choose how he lives/believes.
Ignoring Jesus will result in a life with no future. death.
There is no burning hell for the wicked. It's just dead. No existance.

I think people who truly live by Jesus teachings are better for society. If someone lives with unselfish motives based on true love for humanity, that's better than the guy who is on meth who is willing to kill you for your pocket change.
Morals are everything.

You tell me- If everyone lived as they themselves wanted to be treated, would the world be a better place?
Of course it would.

Honestly, look at any problem in the world and try to determine it's root cause. You will find that they are all due to selfish conduct of the people without morals.

Many times, ( majority of times ) this is the people who claim they believe.


KT

[sammyg2]

Paul was indeed an apostle, just not one of the first.
He did met Jesus and knew him Acts 9:3

[livi]

I agree on the moral part. Its paramount. I do not think we need a specific historical figure to teach us about it. I will go out on a limb here and claim that moral to some extent is a trait with which we are born and subsequently moderated during our first years. Jesus or no Jesus. And in all fairness the atrocities committed in the name of Jesus threw out history does not speak up for him as a moral fertilizer.

[Milu]

Originally posted by sammyg2
Paul was indeed an apostle, just not one of the first.
He did met Jesus and knew him Acts 9:3

With all due respect:

Apostles = 12. Paul was not one of them.

Being hit by a blinding light and hearing the voice of God/Christ/Jesus, does not equate with first hand knowledge of the man and his words.

[trekkor]

Originally posted by livi
I agree on the moral part. Its paramount. I do not think we need a specific historical figure to teach us about it. I will go out on a limb here and claim that moral to some extent is a trait with which we are born and subsequently moderated during our first years. Jesus or no Jesus. And in all fairness the atrocities committed in the name of Jesus threw out history does not speak up for him as a moral fertilizer.

Morals are an interesting topic.

People learn how to live. Everything we do we learned from someone.

If our parents were drug users, tax cheats, thieves, etc. We would think that was OK until something else came along that caused a change.

People can become or remain what they choose.

In some countries morals are law. Punishment may follow for those who do not conform.

In others, you can make a profit from the same conduct.


KT

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by Milu
With all due respect:

Apostles = 12. Paul was not one of them.

Being hit by a blinding light and hearing the voice of God/Christ/Jesus, does not equate with first hand knowledge of the man and his words.

Disciple, and Apostle - not the same I think?

To me - its not just about lving forever vs eternal death, its about getting to actualy know the GREATEST EVER. God is soo awesome.

Trekkor,
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3

[sammyg2]

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and the Son and the holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

[trekkor]

Very good... :nods in agreement:


KT

[nostatic]

Originally posted by djmcmath
At your behest, I have gone to nobeliefs.com. My response is ... shock. You would quote these people in a serious intellectual discussion? (eyebrows very raised) Richard Feynman on "Cargo Cult Science?"

What is your issue with Feynman? Are you saying that he isn't capable of "serious intellectual discussion"?

[djmcmath]

Feynman was a great physicist. A really really good physicist, definitely. While Feynman wasn't a crackpot, the use of that particle article fits neatly into the crackpot appearance of the site. The trick is that Feynman is also relatively renowned for his anti-theistic stance. "God was invented to explain mystery," for example. To pick a half-cocked site that leads in with Feynman, who would gladly tell us all not to believe in anything, is just absurd.

[nostatic]

If using his article helps define the "crackpot" appearance of the site, then in effect you're saying Feynman is a crackpot.

There is no "trick." Feynman was not a theist. That makes him absurd? How about you just don't agree with him?

I believe in a higher power, but I grant Feynman his take on the world. And I understand how he comes to his conclusions. If you don't agree, that is fine. But if you have such a visceral reaction then I would argue that perhaps there is more going on under the surface....

[djmcmath]

You're probably right, Todd. I don't know why I get involved in these threads. I'm a rotten teacher-type, because things that I understand seem so obvious to me that I intuitively assume that anyone who disagrees must be nuts.

My apologies for contributing to the demise of a funny thread. Stepping out.

[nostatic]

no need to step out...just don't take pot shots at one of my heros. That's what's going on under my surface

[Mulhollanddose]

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Jesus died for the redemption of all mankind, a propitiation for all man's sin, what did Feynman do?

[nota]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Jesus died for the redemption of all mankind, a propitiation for all man's sin, what did Feynman do?

jim morrison died for our sins too
not that it matters
as there is no heaven or hell or god

what did Feynman do?
far more it the search for truth and understanding
then a fake god/man ever did
Feynman added to real knowlage

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by nota
what did Feynman do?
far more it the search for truth and understanding
then a fake god/man ever did
Feynman added to real knowlage

Will belief in Feynman bring one happiness?...Has he spawned the greatest country the Earth has seen?...Where were the folks, like Feynman's ilk, when the Christians were down in New Orleans helping the downtrodden and helpless?...From what I understand, those, like Feynman, were conspicuously absent...I suppose they are just too busy being smart and adding to "real knowledge."

BTW...Jim Morrison died as a result of his own sin, nobody else's...most likely in eternal torment at this very moment.