taken by contractor - Page 2

Jims5543 · 10-02-2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by notfarnow
Jim, those floors look awesome! How are they fastened? Looks like nail holes on the faces? I laid 9" hardood planks in my kitchen & dining room... had to plug 826 screw holes!

We used a hardwood floor stapler. It shoots a staple in the tongue. You hit it with a rubber mallet and it pushes the boards tight and shoots a staple all at once.

You can see some surface nails because we used a finish nailer to hit some of the boards near the wall where the stapler would not fit.

I started to putty in the holes and my wife stopped me, she liked the exposed look better. We were shooting for a rustic rough look. The hardwood was 2nd quality and has imperfections, again this is what we wanted.

Procon stopped for Beers one night and helped us with a problem on the 2nd floor. We could not start on a wall the best place to start was in the middle. He told us to rip a set of planks and make a groove in them so they had a groove on both sides. This made it possible to run away from the middle of the room, it worked out great. I wish I took pics of the process but we were too busy.

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Litigation sucks, but it sounds like you might have to drag this one through the courts in order to get resolution. I'd talk to an attorney and as has been stated, make sure there aren't any liens placed on your property in the meantime (or if there are, find out all the details and be prepared for a long fight). Document everything, make a timeline/chronological history of all communications, payments, activity, etc.

Yep - I agree. It may only take a letter from your attorney stating that this issue will be further pursued in court to get the contractor to change his song.

Then again, it may turn into a long-winded lawsuit.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: Did the contractor get the necessary permits from your town before starting the job? If he didn't, did he inform you that such permits were required? (Are they required on your flooring job? I don't know.) The reason I ask is this: IF permits were required for the job done, AND the contractor failed to obtain them, OR inform the homeowner of such permits, that would constitute consumer fraud. (Note: if he informed you that permits were necessary, then he's off the hook.) It may vary from state to state, but in NJ, if a contractor is found guilty of consumer fraud, he must pay treble damages to the homeowner. (treble = x3).

So, while it may take some time, it may be beneficial to pursue this in the court of law.

-Z-man.

PS: I'm in the middle of my own long-winded lawsuit against a contractor, in case you didn't guess...

island_dude · 10-04-2006, 07:11 PM

Thanks for the helpful replys. There were no permits required, so no issues there.

Got a reply to my letter telling him he was done and that I wanted to know how much he thinks I owe. He replied with the numbers and a threat to put a lien on the house, copied a lawyer friend etc.

The problem is that he has added close to $700 on to the total agreed upon price. This guy is a piece of work.

I planning on a reply that sound like this:

1. I did not authorize any charge beyond a certain amount. in any case he hasn't itemized (let alone substatiated) the amount in question.
2. He has done damage to the house. I am holding him responsible. I have pictures, but I did not get three quotes etc. My guy is reasonable and would no doubt be less expensive than his guys.
3. He botched the installation in part and didn't follow standard practice on the other part. I can estimate the cost of the botched work using his quote to me (the cost was good enough for me to pay right).
When I deduct all of this, it ends up with him owing me, not the other way around.

He won't like it, but it seems he is spoiling for a fight.

What do you think?

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Then give him one.

A lot of contractors are used to getting their way through intimidation. Ever see a weakling homeowner or owner's rep. trying to stand up to a clutch of 15 hardhat-wearing gorillas wielding power tools? You catch my drift. A lot of these guys know how to play the intimidation game and will definitely try it. Some will eventually "blink", others will drag the fight all the way to litigation. Depends on the individual contractor.

At least you have a lawyer involved. There are MANY ways to overcome their threats (especially if you're in the right, which it sounds like you are). Hopefully he is an expert on construction contract law - a generalist type attorney might not be a particularly good choice for these kinds of cases.

Best of luck in any case. Don't let the b*stards grind you down. Stand tough and if they want a fight, I say give 'em one.

schamp · 10-05-2006, 04:17 AM

Maybe I missed it but I did not see where you said you had an attorney. Anyway, get one before you send the contrator anything else, or for that matter don't even talk to him. Let you lawyer play the cards. Once you get your lawyer involved you are done with this guy. Get extra copies of the pictures and keep in a separate place. I would think now would be the time to talk with the BBB and since permits were not required maybe get a building inspector up to speed. The inspectors may have to inspect his work on other jobs. The fact he raised his price is in your favor. I had a guy raise the price 33% after the job was done. Nothing was added to the job and he never once said, " I need to talk to you about the price of the job, and get any increase approved by me." I paid the agreed on price and told him I would see him in court should he wish to proceed. Good luck.

NICKG · 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Z-man
Yep - I agree. It may only take a letter from your attorney stating that this issue will be further pursued in court to get the contractor to change his song.

Then again, it may turn into a long-winded lawsuit.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: Did the contractor get the necessary permits from your town before starting the job? If he didn't, did he inform you that such permits were required? (Are they required on your flooring job? I don't know.) The reason I ask is this: IF permits were required for the job done, AND the contractor failed to obtain them, OR inform the homeowner of such permits, that would constitute consumer fraud. (Note: if he informed you that permits were necessary, then he's off the hook.) It may vary from state to state, but in NJ, if a contractor is found guilty of consumer fraud, he must pay treble damages to the homeowner. (treble = x3).

So, while it may take some time, it may be beneficial to pursue this in the court of law.

-Z-man.

PS: I'm in the middle of my own long-winded lawsuit against a contractor, in case you didn't guess...

Z, I am in litigation now for a builder who beat us for near $17k...only flawe is that it is not criminal, no one will prosecute this in nj as they all feel it is a civil matter; We have 14 charges against him for various frauds and theft by deception. We are going to a proof hearing Nov 1...they did not answer the complaints, or even care...just ignored it. So if you ever get sued in nj, just ignore it, like it will go away

in my case the guy was a scammer, he destroyed my house and i have close to $40k in damage done as he most of the housd unsided for nearly a year at this point, i have water damage, mold and then broke my ankle on the ramp i have instead of steps...the attorney is seeking treble damages and says that it would be the original contyract amount ($18k) and the damages to the home (estm $40k) added together and THEN tripled! $58k x3!...which is more than i paid for the house by a lot! He is then wanting to lein his house and charge 21% interest on the amount

The guy i am suing has a 3/4 million dollar home, another in florida and about 5 acres of land. We are gonna immediatly go after his bank accounts and levy ALL of them, we are gonna try to have the houses foreclosed on and sent to sheriff sale.
I am pursuing the $ as agressively as I can, my wife and I are even considering just selling the judgements off when we get them, but the gratifing results a nice bank account levy will have may make it hard

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

NickG - Hmm - I wonder if your contractor is my contractor. Sounds a lot like him.... his first name isn't Joe by any chance, is it, last initial G?!?

-Z

NICKG · 10-05-2006, 09:25 AM

the guy i am sueing is named Joe Brancaccio..he may have several AKA's i understand..he is from Hardyston/orange and several other address' in NJ... So yea, he may be the same guy. he is about 6"1 or so burly guy...italian, dark hair

NICKG · 10-05-2006, 09:41 AM

and if it is the same guy..let me know. Both of us will benefit as then it WOULD become criminal

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Nope - not the same guy - my guy is Italian, but he's not 6'1".

Would have been good to combine forces, though...
-Z

Jims5543 · 10-05-2006, 12:44 PM

Brancaccio ringed a bell with me so I Googled it.

http://www.courttv.com/archive/trials/zoloft/011499.html

Thsi family in Florida hit the lotto twice and hired F. Lee Baily to try to get their son out of jail. They must have figured if it worked for o.j.

NICKG · 10-05-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
Brancaccio ringed a bell with me so I Googled it.

http://www.courttv.com/archive/trials/zoloft/011499.html

Thsi family in Florida hit the lotto twice and hired F. Lee Baily to try to get their son out of jail. They must have figured if it worked for o.j.

this guy has a house and family in fla...hmm

Jims5543 · 10-05-2006, 01:09 PM

Doubt its the same guy, but that is not a common last name I would imagine they are related.

island_dude · 10-05-2006, 07:54 PM

NickG, Sorry to hear your story. That is way worse than what I am dealing with. My guy is a putz and a loser, he isn't fit to play in the same arena as yours. What we have is a difference in how we view the world.

I have a source of legal advice, but not actual representation. At some point I may have to hire someone, but for now I can save my cash for when I might need it.

island_dude · 10-25-2006, 01:01 PM

Ok. I have an update on the case. I finally got a reply to my request that he explain how he arrived at the total he was claiming. He did this by submitting a summary of the payments to date and then adding in the extra stuff. Now there are a couple of interesting things here:

1. He originally claimed a bottom line of $2,600. Now its $2,300. He is adding in extra labor on one extra task (he quoted 2 hours, and charged 3 hours. at $60/hr I expect more accuracy). He is charging me for three extra boxes of flooring that he picked up because he ran out. One of those boxes he did not pay for. Part of another I shouldn't have to pay for since they had to replace a bunch of planks that they scrached up on installation.

2. (this is my favorite): He notes that he is not charging me for 8 hours of work that he did to putty between boards installed that were defective. For those of you that did not catch this point: He installed materials that were defective. Rather than remove them (or better yet not install them at all), and install flooring in spec, he has given me the "gift" of 8 hours of labor ($650!). Excuse me Dumb A$$... Why would you install defective material in the first place? Why not put aside the defective materials and use only the stuff that was good? Since he dragged the job out over the course of 18 days, you could argue that there was plenty of time to have replace the defective materials. Idiot. He just handed me a key admission: that he screwed up the job!!!

3. He has charged me for work he didn't do since his original quote had an item for installing 330 feet of shoe molding. He decided to only install 100 feet, yet he didn't make any deduction.

I will be working up a response, but he is expecting payment now.

Ok boys. What do you think I should do next?

schamp · 10-25-2006, 01:15 PM

I would let my attorney (there is a reason they are called a mouthpiece) respond. You only need to talk to your attorney. Get ahead of this guy before he gets ahead of you. You have the most to loose, rather he has nothing to loose. Thats what I think. Spencer

NICKG · 10-25-2006, 01:23 PM

i would agree. contemplate a counter suit for the damages and the costs of doing it right as he even admits that he installed defective materials.....he basically hung himself there

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

The sight of your next correspondence coming with an attorney's name on the letterhead will put some serious clout to your next letter. It will show him you aren't going to let him push you around and I predict he'll want to settle with you fast. It would probably be the best couple hundred bucks you've ever spent spent.

trekkor · 10-25-2006, 08:19 PM

Do you have a mediation option with your State Contractor's License Board?

KT

island_dude · 10-26-2006, 10:15 AM

It just keeps getting more interesting. I got home last night and my wife tells me that the contractor sent two of his guys over to deliver an envelope to us. Not knowing what was up, she refused to take it.

This morning a got an email from the contractor saying that he had a bad feeling about all of this and if I didn't respond by this tuesday he was taking legal action. Dumb schmuck. He confirmed that the envelop was a copy of the invoices that he emailed.

Lets see, this guy doesn't indicate that he is planning on sending anyone to my door. Two guys show up trying to give my wife invoices that say the balance due NOW. The contractor doesn't think there is a problem here? We have this technology called the US mail system. He has been told he is not welcome at our house. I guess we should have said the same for his workers too. Perhaps he is so dense that I should have named each one just so he is clear on this point.

All I can say is that this guy is a total fool. To any objective observer, this would look like intimidation on a physical level. I have half a mind to tell him to bring it on, because he just keeps giving me more amunition.

One last little thing: He sent an invoice that was dated sept 23. Gee, if he had an invoice generated then why didn't he bother to send it? Better yet, he sent me a copy of the second invoice that was uncorrected. In this invoice he charges me for installing three windows, 17 hours of work for $1,020. Excuse me? He never installed any windows. When I asked him about this charge he said it was for additional work done to repair pet damage to the subfloor. Anyway, in court, this item will certainly get thrown out since he never made any attempt to document this item other than what is an obvious mistake.

Ok. I do have a laywer advising me. This is being done as a favor. I am getting good advice, but perhaps its time to actually hire someone. I don't know if this guy is smart enough to figure out how strong a hand I have to play, even if it comes in a letter from a lawyer. The worst thing is that this guy wants to play this deal two ways. On one hand he acts like a business man with a company with all that that implies. On the other hand, he wants to be compensated for everything that he does on a strict time and materials basis. When a buisness provides an estimate, and they did not anticipate things going wrong on their side, they have to eat the cost. Otherwise, what is the point of the estimate in the first place? They don't get to make a profit when they screw up. This guy thinks he should be making a profit on this job.

After all of the hassle (tearing our house up and leaving it that way for 18 days, the workmanship problems, and the damage to my walls and elsewhere, I should get all of my money back. In fact I will have to have a lot of the work redone at some point much earlier than one would expect for this sort of job. The worst thing is that it actually costs me money since he wasted a bunch of expense hardwood flooring.

Sigh. I am on a rant. Thanks for reading.