Man Created God

[jluetjen]

Originally posted by coldstart
If your neighbor told you that God has decreed that he sacrifice his infant child with a large knife, what would you do???

That man is the founder of three major religions (Judiasm, Christianity and Islam). Abraham.....

And now (As Paul Harvey used to say) the rest of the story...

1) Abraham passed the test of dedication and God did not let his son be killed.
2) God Ultimately passed down the rules that people should not be murdered. Unlike many other religions of that time and after, God does not ask that pain and suffering should be inflicted on people to appease any sort of blood thirsty desire on God's part. (But he does warn that his followers will suffer at the hands of others, which as been the case).
3) God rewarded Abraham with many descendants, both geneologically as well as spiritually.
4) And according to the Christian beliefs, God then offered his own son to the earth, and allowed him to be sacrificed -- competely. In spite of this most grevious sin (and many others), God is willing to forgive us if we chose to accept God.

I suppose that if Abraham had actually carried through on the sacrifice, he wouldn't have been any different then the followers of Baal, David Koresh, Charles Manson, James Jones many other religions which have come and gone up to the present day. The sacrifice some people to an imaginary god, they die out themselves and the cycle starts again. But then that's not the story of the Bible.

So you need to be careful to judge the Bible based on a small fraction of it's contents.

[alf]

Originally posted by IROC

I think the fallacy in your thinking still goes back to the idea that if it was somehow proven tomorrow that god did not exist, do you think people would suddenly become raping, pillaging, thieving animals? Some might, but some are already that way. I don't think most would. Most would behave themselves because it is simply in their best interest to do so.

Mike

Even animals have a base set of behavior traits that allow them to live in groups. From Ants to Zebras, there is some level of social norm and code of behavior. I am pretty sure they do not have any notion of a divine being and promise of an afterlife.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by Z-man
It is far easier to accept the existence of God than it is to disprove the existence of God.

It is a question of faith. (Simple definition of faith: believing in that which cannot be proven or seen.) But the interesting this is this: it takes faith to believe in God, and it also takes faith to NOT believe in God!

If man created God, then without a devine being to jump start life, the universe, and everything, (42), all of this must have started via evolution. Since no one was around when that first ameoba decided to jump out of the goop he was swimming in, there is no uniquivocal, completely undisputable proof that we're decendents of said ameoba.

There are many scientific arguments that support evolution. But there are many mysteries that simply cannot be explained via normal scientific method. There is a concept called "scientific creationism" which I believe explains the origins of the universe the way I believe it worked. Check it out.

-Z

see how confusing it all is?

btw, if GOD does exist, how do we know he wasn't responsible for evolution. ie. GOD is Evolution

[Z-man]

Originally posted by IROC
I think the fallacy in your thinking still goes back to the idea that if it was somehow proven tomorrow that god did not exist, do you think people would suddenly become raping, pillaging, thieving animals?

First off, you need not worry that tomorrow I will become an ax-murderer pillager. I don't think anyone's about to debunk my faith in God. Also: by selfish, I don't necessarily mean doing evil things - I mean doing as much as one can selfishly get away with legally.

That said, my point is the opposite - meaning - I can't understand how those who don't believe in God still help others, and aren't as self-absorbed as they potentially can be.

-Z

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by Z-man
That said, my point is the opposite - meaning - I can't understand how those who don't believe in God still help others, and aren't as self-absorbed as they potentially can be.

-Z

Maybe they are just nice people.

[sammyg2]

Alfred, you made that statement as if it was truth. Fortunately it is nothing more than your opinion. The honest thing to do would be to present it as what it is, strictly an opinion of someone who may or may not have any real knowledge on the subject. For all we know you may have pulled it out of your hat, or maybe it came to you in a vision?

BTW, I disagree with you, but that's OK.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by on-ramp
see how confusing it all is?

btw, if GOD does exist, how do we know he wasn't responsible for evolution. ie. GOD is Evolution

If one believes in the Bible, the simple statement "Man was created in God's image" implies that there was no evolution involved. Unless God is in appearance like an ameoba, but then how would man be able to evolve beyond God?!?

-Z

[Jim Richards]

But Z, it might've left out some of the steps. You know, the whole 7 day creation thingie.

[trekkor]

The term "day" is not limited to 24 hours. You know that.


KT

[Jim Richards]

stop it right there, trekkor. That's not a rat hole I want to go down.

[cashflyer]

Rom 1:17 This Gospel tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
Rom 1:18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.
Rom 1:19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts.
Rom 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
Rom 1:21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.

Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996

[jluetjen]

Originally posted by Z-man
If one believes in the Bible, the simple statement "Man was created in God's image" implies that there was no evolution involved. Unless God is in appearance like an ameoba, but then how would man be able to evolve beyond God?!?

-Z

Image does not necessarily mean what you see in the mirror. Any being that created the heavens and the earth undoubtibly doesn't have 2 arms and 2 legs and stand about 6 feet high. In the Bible god is described as "The word", and as "Love". Humans communicate abstract ideas with words, and humans love, and communicate that love using words. In that respect, they reflect the image God as described in the Bible.

Describing a being which is obviously supernatural (since God had to by definition exist prior to the "Big Bang" in order to initiate the process) in human terms is definitely a case of "creating God in man's image" as the title of this thread suggests.

[trekkor]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
stop it right there, trekkor. That's not a rat hole I want to go down.

Oh...ok.


You sure? No?


Ah, rats...



KT

[Jim Richards]

Maybe a groundhog hole, but not a rat hole. Sorry!

[nota]

Originally posted by jluetjen
And now (As Paul Harvey used to say) the rest of the story...


4) And according to the Christian beliefs, God then offered his own son to the earth, and allowed him to be sacrificed -- competely. In spite of this most grevious sin (and many others), God is willing to forgive us if we chose to accept God.


So you need to be careful to judge the Bible based on a small fraction of it's contents.

BUT BUT BUT WHERE IS THE BIG SACRIFICE
he was not killed, forever, and came back quickly
YES HE HAD A BAD DAY, but in the over all long view
where is the big loss if he came back?
a rathor incomplete sacrifice if you ask me

BTW why is this all powerfull GOD, LIMITED TO ONE SON??
why can't every tribe get a kid
and why a one time only deal for only the jews

[alf]

Originally posted by sammyg2
Alfred, you made that statement as if it was truth. Fortunately it is nothing more than your opinion. The honest thing to do would be to present it as what it is, strictly an opinion of someone who may or may not have any real knowledge on the subject. For all we know you may have pulled it out of your hat, or maybe it came to you in a vision?

BTW, I disagree with you, but that's OK.

I said it was a hypothesis that i came up with when i was 12 and did say to take it with a grain of salt. You are correct though, i should have put it in the original post instead of a couple down.

BTW, i do believe in the divine. Not a dude in the sky with a personality but some sort of divine power that i could not describe or understand in my human capacity.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by Z-man
If one believes in the Bible, the simple statement "Man was created in God's image" implies that there was no evolution involved. Unless God is in appearance like an ameoba, but then how would man be able to evolve beyond God?!?

-Z

what???

why can't "Man was created in God's image" mean that man was created over a period of 5 billion years.

That's the problem with the Bible, it's open to endless interpretations, and that's why we have wars. Murder is negotiable when it comes to religion. And religion is used to control others.. and plus it's a billion $ industry.

the Bible was written by man and revised by man.... if the Bible was GOd's word, why does it need to be revised.

wasn't the first draft by the creator of the heavens and the earth good enough???

[Dennis Kalma]

Interesting thread, remarkable in its civility.

A couple of points.

Show me a case where something in human experience increases in complexity without intervention and I would accept that as a point in favour of the "no God, humans evolved" camp. Really my thinking is a form of the second law of entropy, things go from higher energy (complexity) states to lower energy (simpler) states. I just don't see it. Men build more complex things from simpler components (reduce entropy), but so far we have not built anything more complex than "we" are.

Second. We mere humans make a big deal about death and dying, as for us it is the "end" of existence as we see it. What happens if there is actually something after this life? What happens if "God" actually sees both sides of divide and deals with them on an equal basis? Taking the example of Abraham being ordered to kill Isaac....what happen's if in God's eyes, the worst that would have happened is that Abraham went through with it, Isaac joined the folk on "the other side" and God had to go look for a new leader of his nation? Maybe it is not such a big deal for Him?

Personally, I think that God has an excellent sense of humour, look at the stuff he created and the goofy interactions they cause. This whole man/woman thing....I mean c'mon, how on earth could something with bizarre persona's as "women" actually evolve? I mean, if PMS is not something intended to cause interaction of the most odd kind....what the heck would it have evolved for?

Oh yeah, just for the record, I am a social conservative, fiscal conservative, fundamentalist Christian who believes that you need to look at the whole religion thing from the point of view of being a primitive trying to guage the purpose of a Porsche Carrera GT

Dennis

[on-ramp]

after we die, there is only 1 thing waiting for us.

a hole in the ground.

for those that believe otherwise, well, they wont be too disappointed when they find out, cause they'll be dead.

[nostatic]

please don't trot out the entropy argument...asked and answered.

Trek, plenty of people believe in the literal interpretation of 7 days and 3500 years or whatever.