Porsche Driving Tip-

[Jeff Higgins]

With the tremendous mechanical advantage offered by the clutch linkage and the clutch pedal itself, it's easy to lose sight of how much pressure it takes to release that clutch. While the throwout bearing will probably outlive you, all of that pressure is pushing the crank aft against the thrust bearing. Like a couple thousand pounds of pressure. Do it a favor and slide into neutral as you coast up to that stop light. Don't re-engage first until ready to roll. Then, of course, hammer the bejeezus out of it and don't shift 'tlll she starts to blubber...

[hytem]

I concur about shifting slowly--or deliberately. Let the synchros work. Keep your mind on the shifting. I try to stay above 2000 rpm in 4th and 5th, and work the engine to 4000 rpm in 1st and 2nd around town. That gives the engine some exercise without having to speed above 45 mph. That's important if you don't drive much.

Downshifting from 5th to 4th is difficult, going 5th to 3rd is easier.
Advice from my mechanic, also an SC owner.

[Victor]

Pelican Parts OT Tip:

NEVER give tips on how to drive a Porsche.

[masraum]

Originally posted by FinallyGotOne
One of the most critical things in driving the 911 is to NOT RUSH shifting.

GREAT advice.

If you are trying to be racy and take 1st gear up past 3500 RPS then quickshift to second you are creating nmore problems than you know!

before '87, it's not really a huge problem in a G50 and later car unless you are slamming through the gears quick enough to chirp the tires.

Take your time shifting into the gears.

again, great advice, but at the same time, you should be able to shift quickly enough that the rpms haven't dropped below the match point for the next gear.

ALSO NEVER rest at a stop light with clutch pushed in. this creates way too much pressure on the clutch and it will wear out fast. A clutch kit costs about $475 parts.

Thoroughly covered, not really an issue on the clutch. I suspect the chances of the pressure plate spring mechanism loosing it's "spring" before you wear the disk out are pretty darn slim. As stated, the disk isn't wearing at all if the clutch is not engaged. Biggest issue is probably the thrust bearing which is why it's also not a bad practice to train yourself to start the car with the clutch out, not in.

Lastly, NEVER downshift to 1st gear. The synchros will wear out and get dogeared and cuase more problems.

Again, not necessarily a problem. Just do it correctly (rev match and possibly double-clutch and make sure you don't mechanically over-rev, and you shouldn't have a problem. Probably not a good idea to do it all the time. Only if you need to.

[masraum]

Originally posted by Victor
Pelican Parts OT Tip:

NEVER give tips on how to drive a Porsche.

Actually, it's not a bad idea. It is often very helpful for newer folks and can clear up common misconceptions. Actually there have been a couple of similar threads that were very long and had lots of good info, but I think they are usually in the 911 Technical forum, not OT.

I think the fella at the top was just trying to be helpful and this thread has done that.

Occasionally someone posts that they have XX year 911 and have never revved their engine higher than 4000rpm or maybe 4500. They are often asking, is that safe, or why is my car so slow. You should see those threads. Usually by the end of the thread the OP is thanking the board heartily because he had just driven his car how it should be driven.

I remember one where the OP went for a drive at 3 am and posted at 5 am how much fun it had been.

[Jack Olsen]

Why did this thread get moved?

[island911]

because it's clownish?

[island911]

Originally posted by masraum
GREAT advice.

... quick enough to chirp the tires.

.

Great advice!?

Quick shifting about timing. (915 or G50) If one pauses to shift, the rev's drop too far and the syncros have to work much harder to re-match speeds.

Chirping tires happen more easily with a slight delay in letting the clutch out (more energy in the flywheel). . . a slower shift.

[Victor]

Originally posted by masraum


Occasionally someone posts that they have XX year 911 and have never revved their engine higher than 4000rpm or maybe 4500. They are often asking, is that safe, or why is my car so slow. You should see those threads. Usually by the end of the thread the OP is thanking the board heartily because he had just driven his car how it should be driven.

I remember one where the OP went for a drive at 3 am and posted at 5 am how much fun it had been.

Brother, those people need to be ushered back to the retirement village. And then humanely shot.

Those people make me think of the Porsche equivalent to that movie with John Travolta / Tim Allen "Wild Hogs".....

[livi]

IMHO, there are three important things driving any car, particularly a vintage 911. They are equally important for steering, braking and gear changing.

1. Smooth.
2. Smooth.
3. Smooth.

[masraum]

Originally posted by island911
Great advice!?

Quick shifting about timing. (915 or G50) If one pauses to shift, the rev's drop too far and the syncros have to work much harder to re-match speeds.

Chirping tires happen more easily with a slight delay in letting the clutch out (more energy in the flywheel). . . a slower shift.

I suspect that there's a misunderstanding someplace.

I believe that I said that shifts should be deliberate and slow, not so slow that the revs fall too far though. I also said that you don't want to shift so quickly that you chirp the tires.

In my experience chirping of tires usually happens if you shift too quickly and let the clutch out so quickly that the engine revs are too high for the speed and gear and the tires slide for a tiny bit until the revs drop. Or it could be because you let the revs drop too low and let the clutch out too quickly which is the opposite of what I said before. The third and more rare instance that I know of that will chirp the tires is that you may have the revs perfectly matched, but you've got too much gas on so the engine accelerates and spins the tires. Regardless it's not smooth and is causing undue stress on various parts.

If the revs have to be changed up or down to match then your shift was off and will cause stress to the system. If you chirped your tires then there was enough force to break traction. That much force causes a fair amount of stress and strain to CV joints, tranny, clutch, tires, bearings, etc...

[FinallyGotOne]

OKAY Hey everybody, Yoyu all really do not seem to know what the hell you are talking about. I have proof. Research STORZ garage first okay, so that way you knowthe info is oming from a well reputed source. 2nd, I JUST PAID $ 4,200 to rebuild my tranny, replace my roll pin, clutch, and SEVERAL other componets.

THE EXACT STATEMENT from Storz garage is do NOT take 1st gear past 3500 RPM on my 1979 911 SC. And best to shift at 3000. MY CAR IS STOCK so lets get that out there. (some updates like chain tensioner, pop off, etc...) Beyond 1st gear the redline is fine fior shifting, but the 1st gear is short and that is the fact.
if you race your car and can work on them easy enougfh and drop out the motors to rebuild your trannys than that is awesome for you. but for the regular guy that cannot really do this, the shop repairs costs do not outweigh the exhileration of hitting 50 in 1st gear-OK?
Second, the strain of pushing in the clutch WILL wear out your parts faster than if you did not hold it in while waiting a ful minute or more for the light. MILT you know what I am talking about, I just am drawing a blank on the names of the parts help me out here.
Tis info is a TIP, it WILL make the componets last longer and anyone that says different is actuially just factually wrong. I'm not digging at you guys, I know some of you have loads and loads more experience, i'm just trying to save somone fron going through what i just did. I mean it was pretty frusrating to drop thousands on my body kits to have a mecahnical failure 2 days later. and i DID get a PPI the guy just lied!
FIRST GEAR IS NOT REDLINE-3000-4000 RPMS. rARELY MAYBE IT IS OKAY, BUT not the standard
PS THANK YOU TYSON, THAT IS BETTER EXPLAINED!

[pmajka]

+1,
Downshifting in to 1st gear is easy.
Blip
Match rpms
Click
Smooth.
(spoiled G50 Owner)

Originally posted by livi
IMHO, there are three important things driving any car, particularly a vintage 911. They are equally important for steering, braking and gear changing.

1. Smooth.
2. Smooth.
3. Smooth.

[cbeers]

Wow finally.

You started out with good intentions, now you are bashing the members of this board?

"Yoyu all really do not seem to know what the hell you are talking about."

Good luck with you new driving style......

-Chris

[island911]

Steve, This topic certainly has been gone thru before.

I can't help to think that those who say "shifts should be deliberate and slow," haven't learned the subtleties of the 911/915.


RE chirps.

"you may have the revs perfectly matched, but you've got too much gas on so" --how would you perfectly match rev's while having too much gas on?

[Tishabet]

[fumanchu]

Have you listened to some of the people that responded to this thread. Saying they don't know what they are talking about is a bit extreme. I think you meant well with your initial post, try not to take the criticism too hard. On the heels of spending 4500.00 on a tranny rebuild, one can understand why you feel this way.

I also find it odd that your garage recommended this shifting technique. Just remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat.. if that makes sense.

IMHO..I like to run my car past 3500 rpm in 1st.... often!

Best of luck on your rebuilt 915.

[masraum]

Fella, relax. You've been mis-informed. Saying that you shouldn't shift a Porsche out of 1st gear over 4000rpm is ludicrous. Just because a shop says something doesn't make it gospel. I'm sure MotorMeister says a lot, but I wouldn't listen to them much either. If the tranny and shifter is in good shape and adjusted correctly and the shifting is done correctly then there shouldn't be any problems shifting at redline. Porsche didn't and wouldn't have engineered a 911 to be that fragile. It's unfortunate, but I suspect that no matter what anyone on this board says, you'll stick with your theories. Just don't spread them too much.

Originally posted by FinallyGotOne
OKAY Hey everybody, Yoyu all really do not seem to know what the hell you are talking about. I have proof. Research STORZ garage first okay, so that way you knowthe info is oming from a well reputed source. 2nd, I JUST PAID $ 4,200 to rebuild my tranny, replace my roll pin, clutch, and SEVERAL other componets.

THE EXACT STATEMENT from Storz garage is do NOT take 1st gear past 3500 RPM on my 1979 911 SC. And best to shift at 3000. MY CAR IS STOCK so lets get that out there. (some updates like chain tensioner, pop off, etc...) Beyond 1st gear the redline is fine fior shifting, but the 1st gear is short and that is the fact.

Second, the strain of pushing in the clutch WILL wear out your parts faster than if you did not hold it in while waiting a ful minute or more for the light. MILT you know what I am talking about, I just am drawing a blank on the names of the parts help me out here.

[masraum]

Originally posted by island911
Steve, This topic certainly has been gone thru before.

I can't help to think that those who say "shifts should be deliberate and slow," haven't learned the subtleties of the 911/915.


RE chirps.

"you may have the revs perfectly matched, but you've got too much gas on so" --how would you perfectly match rev's while having too much gas on?

I guess "slow" is a relative term. When I think of a quick shift, I'm thinking of the type of shift you'd see in a muscle car at the strip. I'm certainly not promoting slow that causes the revs to drop below the next gear.

Re Chirping: I did highlight "may" in italics.

Like I said, I think there may be a bit of misunderstanding between us. I suspect you don't promote speed shifting/power shifting/whatever. I'm not promoting shifting so slowly that the car lurches because the revs have dropped too far.

[Z-man]

My $0.42:

1. Shifting - whether it is an upshift of a downshift: the movement of the shift lever is a three step process:
- Out of the original gear
- Through the neutral plane
- Into the required gear.

2. Downshifting -- NEVER EVER use a downshift to slow the car down. The proper technique to engage a lower gear is to do a technique commonly referred to as a "heel and toe downshift." If done properly, a heel/toe downshift will not change the decelleration attitude of the car whatsoever. If you want to slow the car down, use the brakes - that is what they are designed for, and replacing worn brake components (pads and rotors) are far cheaper than a tranny rebuild. (Search the DE/Track forum for more details on the heel-toe downshift).

Here's a rough visual idea of the heel/toe downshift is:


The throttle is blipped as the clutch is released in order to rev-match the motor to the lower gear.


-Z