You might say they were unsuccessful at secession.

Yea, slaves were used in the North, and even while fighting against the South, yankees were still using slaves.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1182876997.jpg

Clearly you are not BLACK.

If you were, the "Screw you" notion of the stars and bars would have a different connotation.

The seemingly omni-presence of the Confederate battle flag at Klan and Skin-head rallys certainly indicates that some people find it has a bit more malicious symbolism than "Southern Pride" or "Screw you, I'm a rebel". Rather it is a foisted as a symbol of intimidation.

By all means, fly the stars and bars if you want. It's freedom of expression afterall. Just don't be suprised well people express their displeasure with you and your flag.

BTW: I'm not singling you out Joe, but you synopsized a thought that seems to run through this thread.

Another way to put it is to say, "As a whole they failed to be any better than the worst of those in the North.”

What some fringe groups do with a "symbol" is something that I cannot control, but it has no impact whatsoever on what a flag represents to me (and many others). I'm a white male (with southern roots), so I'm coming from that background, and (I'm assuming) you're black, so without question, you're going to have a different perspective. I respect that. I remember in my youth (mid-70s) when southern rock was king, I was a typical teenager, and I could have easily displayed a "rebel flag" (without thinking twice about it), because as Joe has stated, back then, it really was a symbol of "rebellion", and had nothing to do with racism, etc. I've always had lots of black friends, and honestly, I can't ever recall the "rebel flag" stirring quite the controversy that it has in these "politically correct" times. I guess my point is: THAT flag doesn't make you a racist/bigot, etc., and I do have a sense of southern pride when I see it. I have the same sense of pride when I see the American flag too (and it represents some things I'm not real proud of either... i.e. Native Americans).

I don't know anything about the Klan except from TV, but if they think they own a historical battle flag then they are dead wrong. They don't own the cross either. They own their name and abbreviation period.

It's time Helter Skelter was taken back from Charlie Manson and it's time the Manassas battle flag was taken back from inbreeding scum that spread malcontent and hate.

So guys, what does all of this have to do with talking about p-cars, swilling beers, wine sipping, and grilling steaks and the like? :confused:

Nothing :) ...it's WAY too early, but where's my beer?

(going a bit OT in OT here)...Jim- was sorry not to see your car in Staunton, i had thought you might be attending.

If you go "OT in OT", do you end up "on topic"? :)

[veering further OT]I wanted to go; however, it's been too busy here for me to go off and play. My car's MFI injection pump is apart to correct some issues I discovered as a result of my road trip out west last month. I hope to have it back together this coming weekend.[/veering]

It looks like Pat has a nice place out there in SC. I'll bet it was fun to hang out there. :)

Jay,
Are you going to explain to people that you were standing out in the hotel parking lot at midnight, during a storm, taking pictures? Or am I going to do it?
And Jim, hanging out at Pats is a blast. You never know where a conversation will end up.

Why ?

Todd :confused:

This thread has gone NOWHERE, but those steaks look great. Next time, I'm going to FastPats, 'cause it beats the food at any other Pcar event I've seen.