Dad: Blackwater blew up son's and wife's 'skulls'

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by FOG

Stijn,

So the French being more brutal than either Imperial Russia or the Soviet Union in Chechnya is due France being a form of demcocracy?

The lack of brutality (sarcasm here) in Ivory Coast a couple of years ago by the French is because they have a form of democracy?

S/F, FOG

i'm well aware that even democratic governments sometimes deliver messy work, and France in the EU is probably one of the frequent flyers ( Algeria, Rainbow Warrior) that wasn't my point
i was referring to the fact that the French in the end had to give up Algeria, while Checnya is still not independent not about the brutality

btw, De Gaulle was smart enough to understand he couldn't keep it, couldn't secure the colony... it's a bit like Iraq, damned if you do , damned if you don't
so he gave it up, took the temporary influx of Algerians, and left the country to figure it out by themselves, so far, not much in the way of stability, but so what, it's not like they are a threat to anyone, just like Iraq isn't

i've said it before, whoever controls Iraq, will have to sell the oil to somebody in order to buy goodies, so might as well let them play cowboys and Indians in the sand and wait for the oil to hit the market, when it comes to selling, it will still go to the one paying the price

now i'm off, i'm hitting the road for a few days

[Mule]

Originally Posted by svandamme

i'm well aware that even democratic governments sometimes deliver messy work, and France in the EU is probably one of the frequent flyers ( Algeria, Rainbow Warrior) that wasn't my point

I get the point. OK by Europe. Not OK by America.

i was referring to the fact that the French in the end had to give up Algeria, while Checnya is still not independent not about the brutality

btw, De Gaulle was smart enough to understand he couldn't keep it, couldn't secure the colony... it's a bit like Iraq, damned if you do , damned if you don't
so he gave it up, took the temporary influx of Algerians, and left the country to figure it out by themselves, so far, not much in the way of stability, but so what, it's not like they are a threat to anyone, just like Iraq isn't

And soon they'll run the place. That's what we need id a smart guy like DeGaulle to run things.

i've said it before, whoever controls Iraq, will have to sell the oil to somebody in order to buy goodies, so might as well let them play cowboys and Indians in the sand and wait for the oil to hit the market, when it comes to selling, it will still go to the one paying the price

Only you lefties think the plan was for colonization.

now i'm off, i'm hitting the road for a few days

Dont get lost. I mean any more than you already are.

..

[Mule]

Too bad you're leaving Stijn. You could comment on this bunch of lies from those right wing neo-cons at the BBC. More proof that the muslims are all about some peace.

Several thousand people have attended the funeral in Antwerp of a young Moroccan-born teacher, whose killing on Tuesday sparked two night of riots in the Belgian city.

Mohammed Achrak's coffin was draped in a Moroccan flag during the service and was carried through the streets during the funeral procession. He will be buried in Morocco next week.


I have no doubt that action is on the way

Guy Verhofstadt, Belgian prime minister
At the service, Mr Achrak's brother Satif pleaded with those present to stay calm.

"We are all angered by what has happened... but we don't need any more victims," he said.

Earlier, Belgian police charged Dyab Abu Jahjah, the head of an Arab militant group, with conspiracy to cause disorder, criminal damage and wounding a police officer in rioting.

More than 100 people were arrested during the violence.

Mr Abu Jahjah was arrested on Thursday after Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt indicated that the Arab European League (AEL) could be banned, and accused it of attempting to set up no-go areas for police.

The AEL described the arrest as a "provocation", but said it would not respond "as we don't want to be dragged into unnecessary frenzy at this stage".

[FOG]

Stijn,

De Gaulle couldn’t muster the domestic support to win and keep Algeria, a familiar theme in places. DeGaulle wanted to keep Algeria from a position of pride, not strategic interests. The Algerian war was winnable from a purely military stand point, just not from a domestic French perspective.

The biggest difference was that in Chechnya lots of western Europeans derided both the Imperial Russian effort and then the Soviet as plodding and unimaginative. They took longer and didn’t have the spectacular headlines that most people could understand.

In Iraq the USMC was criticized for it’s stance on enabling the Sunni tribes in early 04. No reports in the media, no support from either the State department not the rest of the DoD. When the “Sunni Awakening” was reported three and a half years later it was if it happened overnight.

The lack of accurate reporting, both deliberate and through a lack of understanding of the basics, in Iraq is a large contributor.

A few examples of mis-reporting are the hotel shoot in the initial invasion, attacking a “wedding”, shooting of a non-combatant in the mosque in Fallujah, and the Italian journalist incident where her security screwed up. Lots more where the military is reported as bad when in fact they did nothing wrong.

Since this thread started about Black Water, what about State Department security and ROE vice going off on tangents to tangents.

S/F, FOG

[Mule]

The AEL is suing the city's mayor, Leona Detiege, for libel, after she accused the group of fomenting the riots on Tuesday and Wednesday, after the death of the teacher.

Protesters in Antwerp street
More than 100 people were arrested during the riots

The group last week began video patrols to film Antwerp police, in an effort to record what it claims is racist behaviour.

It distributed flyers under the heading: "Bad cops - the AEL is watching you."

Mr Abu Jahjah, who was born in Lebanon, has called for Arabic to be recognised as a fourth official language in Belgium, after French, Dutch and German.

The far-right opposition Vlaams Blok, which took 33% of the vote in the last local elections in Antwerp, called for the patrols to be arrested, and for the AEL to be banned.

"If we have to ban this organisation, then we will do so," Mr Verhofstadt told parliament, stressing that any decision would be based on the rule of law.

"I have no doubt that action is on the way," he added.

Ethnic mix

Officials are already investigating whether the video patrols breach rules banning private militias.

Earlier this year, there were attacks on Jews in the city, apparently linked to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

About 30,000 people of Arab origin and 20,000 Jews live in the city of 450,000.

The Vlaams Blok holds 20 seats on the 55-seat municipal council.

Belgian police are still holding 20 youths of North African descent after arresting more than 100 during the rioting.

The demonstrators said the killing of Mr Achrak was racially motivated.

Police say there is no evidence for this.

A 66-year-old pensioner, described by prosecutors as mentally unstable, has been charged with Mr Achrak's murder.

[svandamme]

not much time, but here goes

Originally Posted by Mule

I get the point. OK by Europe. Not OK by America.

neither is OK
but the more you do it , the worse it is
the US has done a lot of it

Originally Posted by Mule

Only you lefties think the plan was for colonization.

nah, it's about the oil

[QUOTE=Mule;3549381
Mohammed Achrak's CNN article, sure, there were riots
just like there are always riots in underdevelloped poor areas of big cities whenever one of theirs got clipped , and they are always "innocent"
that's not muslim extremisme, that's minorities in poor "hoods"[/quote]

i'm sure you are familiar with the phenomenon back in the US

Originally Posted by FOG

De Gaulle couldn’t muster the domestic support to win and keep Algeria, a familiar theme in places. DeGaulle wanted to keep Algeria from a position of pride, not strategic interests. The Algerian war was winnable from a purely military stand point, just not from a domestic French perspective.

that was my point, he couldn't
if he were a Russian commie, he could have ( or at least have it go on for a lot longer)

Originally Posted by FOG

The biggest difference was that in Chechnya lots of western Europeans derided both the Imperial Russian effort and then the Soviet as plodding and unimaginative. They took longer and didn’t have the spectacular headlines that most people could understand.

well, press in commie Russia, wouldn't have the headlines unless they were favorable for the state, commie rule get's away with more, and suffers less from media

Originally Posted by FOG

In Iraq the USMC was criticized for it’s stance on enabling the Sunni tribes in early 04. No reports in the media, no support from either the State department not the rest of the DoD. When the “Sunni Awakening” was reported three and a half years later it was if it happened overnight.

The lack of accurate reporting, both deliberate and through a lack of understanding of the basics, in Iraq is a large contributor.

A few examples of mis-reporting are the hotel shoot in the initial invasion, attacking a “wedding”, shooting of a non-combatant in the mosque in Fallujah, and the Italian journalist incident where her security screwed up. Lots more where the military is reported as bad when in fact they did nothing wrong.

no arguments there, innocent bystanders getting done in war, is unfortunatly inevidable, i don't blame the soldiers, i understand it happens
the Italian Journalist, well, i can imagine hothead italian security folks, pumped up driving at night, not really thinking straight about the circumstances, driving full speed towards a checkpoint
hell, if i were at the checkpoint, i probably would have fired too
that's just blue on blue because of bad communications by the italians
tough deal, but that's the way it is

Originally Posted by FOG

Since this thread started about Black Water, what about State Department security and ROE vice going off on tangents to tangents.

S/F, FOG

tangents, you mean, DOD and SD not answering anything with a straight question? or simply having ADD with whatever they do?
not to familiar with that word

Blackwater is just bad for everybody, it's Bad for the Iraqi's, it's bad for US reputation, they answer to nobody, and have even drawn weapons on US military... that alone says it all, BW is just bad

the only exception is probably the insurgents, i'm sure they love BW for what it achieves in terms of Bad Rep for the US... it's another polarizer, which is exactly what they like, now i'm off again for a night into town, in Antwerp today, Mule, it's a riot down here! you should come!

[svandamme]

not much time, but here goes

Originally Posted by Mule

I get the point. OK by Europe. Not OK by America.

neither is OK
but the more you do it , the worse it is
the US has done a lot of it

Originally Posted by Mule

Only you lefties think the plan was for colonization.

nah, it's about the oil

[QUOTE=Mule;3549381]
Mohammed Achrak's CNN article, sure, there were riots
just like there are always riots in underdevelloped poor areas of big cities whenever one of theirs got clipped , and they are always "innocent"
that's not muslim extremisme, that's minorities in poor "hoods"

i'm sure you are familiar with the phenomenon back in the US

Originally Posted by FOG

De Gaulle couldn’t muster the domestic support to win and keep Algeria, a familiar theme in places. DeGaulle wanted to keep Algeria from a position of pride, not strategic interests. The Algerian war was winnable from a purely military stand point, just not from a domestic French perspective.

that was my point, he couldn't
if he were a Russian commie, he could have ( or at least have it go on for a lot longer)

Originally Posted by FOG

The biggest difference was that in Chechnya lots of western Europeans derided both the Imperial Russian effort and then the Soviet as plodding and unimaginative. They took longer and didn’t have the spectacular headlines that most people could understand.

well, press in commie Russia, wouldn't have the headlines unless they were favorable for the state, commie rule get's away with more, and suffers less from media

Originally Posted by FOG

In Iraq the USMC was criticized for it’s stance on enabling the Sunni tribes in early 04. No reports in the media, no support from either the State department not the rest of the DoD. When the “Sunni Awakening” was reported three and a half years later it was if it happened overnight.

The lack of accurate reporting, both deliberate and through a lack of understanding of the basics, in Iraq is a large contributor.

A few examples of mis-reporting are the hotel shoot in the initial invasion, attacking a “wedding”, shooting of a non-combatant in the mosque in Fallujah, and the Italian journalist incident where her security screwed up. Lots more where the military is reported as bad when in fact they did nothing wrong.

no arguments there, innocent bystanders getting done in war, is unfortunatly inevidable, i don't blame the soldiers, i understand it happens
the Italian Journalist, well, i can imagine hothead italian security folks, pumped up driving at night, not really thinking straight about the circumstances, driving full speed towards a checkpoint
hell, if i were at the checkpoint, i probably would have fired too
that's just blue on blue because of bad communications by the italians
tough deal, but that's the way it is

Originally Posted by FOG

Since this thread started about Black Water, what about State Department security and ROE vice going off on tangents to tangents.

S/F, FOG

tangents, you mean, DOD and SD not answering anything with a straight question? or simply having ADD with whatever they do?
not to familiar with that word

Blackwater is just bad for everybody, it's Bad for the Iraqi's, it's bad for US reputation, they answer to nobody, and have even drawn weapons on US military... that alone says it all, BW is just bad

the only exception is probably the insurgents, i'm sure they love BW for what it achieves in terms of Bad Rep for the US... it's another polarizer, which is exactly what they like, now i'm off again for a night into town, in Antwerp today, Mule, it's a riot down here! you should come!

[svandamme]

not much time, but here goes

Originally Posted by Mule

I get the point. OK by Europe. Not OK by America.

neither is OK
but the more you do it , the worse it is
the US has done a lot of it

Originally Posted by Mule

Only you lefties think the plan was for colonization.

nah, it's about the oil


Mohammed Achrak's CNN article, sure, there were riots
just like there are always riots in underdevelloped poor areas of big cities whenever one of theirs got clipped , and they are always "innocent"
that's not muslim extremisme, that's minorities in poor "hoods"

i'm sure you are familiar with the phenomenon back in the US

Originally Posted by FOG

De Gaulle couldn’t muster the domestic support to win and keep Algeria, a familiar theme in places. DeGaulle wanted to keep Algeria from a position of pride, not strategic interests. The Algerian war was winnable from a purely military stand point, just not from a domestic French perspective.

that was my point, he couldn't
if he were a Russian commie, he could have ( or at least have it go on for a lot longer)

Originally Posted by FOG

The biggest difference was that in Chechnya lots of western Europeans derided both the Imperial Russian effort and then the Soviet as plodding and unimaginative. They took longer and didn’t have the spectacular headlines that most people could understand.

well, press in commie Russia, wouldn't have the headlines unless they were favorable for the state, commie rule get's away with more, and suffers less from media

Originally Posted by FOG

In Iraq the USMC was criticized for it’s stance on enabling the Sunni tribes in early 04. No reports in the media, no support from either the State department not the rest of the DoD. When the “Sunni Awakening” was reported three and a half years later it was if it happened overnight.

The lack of accurate reporting, both deliberate and through a lack of understanding of the basics, in Iraq is a large contributor.

A few examples of mis-reporting are the hotel shoot in the initial invasion, attacking a “wedding”, shooting of a non-combatant in the mosque in Fallujah, and the Italian journalist incident where her security screwed up. Lots more where the military is reported as bad when in fact they did nothing wrong.

no arguments there, innocent bystanders getting done in war, is unfortunatly inevidable, i don't blame the soldiers, i understand it happens
the Italian Journalist, well, i can imagine hothead italian security folks, pumped up driving at night, not really thinking straight about the circumstances, driving full speed towards a checkpoint
hell, if i were at the checkpoint, i probably would have fired too
that's just blue on blue because of bad communications by the italians
tough deal, but that's the way it is

Originally Posted by FOG

Since this thread started about Black Water, what about State Department security and ROE vice going off on tangents to tangents.

S/F, FOG

tangents, you mean, DOD and SD not answering anything with a straight question? or simply having ADD with whatever they do?
not to familiar with that word

Blackwater is just bad for everybody, it's Bad for the Iraqi's, it's bad for US reputation, they answer to nobody, and have even drawn weapons on US military... that alone says it all, BW is just bad

the only exception is probably the insurgents, i'm sure they love BW for what it achieves in terms of Bad Rep for the US... it's another polarizer, which is exactly what they like, now i'm off again for a night into town, in Antwerp today, Mule, it's a riot down here! you should come!

[FOG]

Stijn,

My point is not the lack of an open media in either Russia or the Soviet Union vice Europe. It was the inaccurate reporting and astounding lack of understanding that accompanies the reporting.

The Italians not only failed to inform, failed to obey the control measures but used active deception. Then ignore the warning shots. Followed by one short burst for effect, not sustained fire as they should have done.

The wedding issue where the media states that people fire into the air at night. While that is true they don’t use .50 caliber, 20mm and ManPads. The media initially agreed that the supplied videos were of the same events but have zero comprehension of what is seen.

I am no PAO and speak only for myself. The norm I have witnessed is media asking questions analogous to “How often do you beat your wife?” I have refused to do interviews when asked. Just from reading this thread I have a hard time believing the lack of understanding that would be expected of junior military personnel without the benefit of higher education.

The thread is about one incident involving Black Water. It went seriously away from topic. Why question the Department of Defense over a State Department program?

S/F, FOG

[Mule]

Know what the difference is between a moderate muslim & a radical muslim? A moderate muslim only wants to kill Jews & Americans. A radical muslim wants to kill everybody!

[Mule]

This may add some insight. Google Belgium riots & let me know how many hits don't involve either muslims or a band.

[Tobra]

First let me say that Blackwater is doing some good things and some bad things. I have no doubt that the initiator of this thread found the most inflammatory and one sided information available and presented it as gospel. I also have no doubt that there is more to the story than we have here. There needs to be accountability, which has been lacking with these contractors.

Originally Posted by on-ramp

Iraq was a peaceful country before the invasion. no war, no suicide bombings, the people could walk the streets without suffering or the threat of being blown or shot at, no bombs falling om=n their homes. yeah, it was under control by the dictator, but hey, so are hundreds of other countries.

ARE YOU CRAZY???

what color is the sky on your home planet?

Originally Posted by kach22i

Way to support the troops Tim.

that is the most ignorant thing I have seen you post, and that is saying something.

Originally Posted by Dottore

Nice revisionist history. This war "started on a republican's watch?" Hello?

It was started by people who happened to be Republican, who invented lies to hoodwink their constituency into supporting the war and who did so in contravention of the United Nations and in complete ignornace of the probable consequences (which were not only forseeable but spelled out to them by their European allies) AND it was started without proper intelligence, preparation or planning.

And you talk about pride of country?

Apparently, you think this started when GWBush was president. Let me give you a little 411, this started thousands of years ago. Not a lot of veracity in your post, none really.

Originally Posted by Mule

So news reports of areas the police are scared to enter are lies?

They are not afraid to go there, they are "No Go Zones", everyone knows if you leave them alone, Muslims will never start trouble. The LE types are just trying to give those who submit a little space.

Originally Posted by livi

Well, just to be clear, by taking action I do not mean gunning down every musly at sight. We need to put a complete and absolute stop to immigration like yesterday. We need to change our political stance on assimilation. We need to stop being so darn naive and feeling sorry for everyone. We need to recognize that homo sapience in it self is a territorially, defensive, aggressive animal and when adopting a radical religious belief we are anybodies worst nightmare.

Markus, everything in your post is true of the US, everything.

[Mule]

From Boortz


MUSLIM ATTACKS MILITARY POLICEMEN

This story just keeps getting weirder and weirder. In Miami a man by the name of Tahmeed Ahmad went to Homestead Air Reserve Base and told guards that he wanted to kill soldiers. He did this while wielding two butcher knives and vodka bottles to use as explosives and chanting ''Death to America."

But don't worry ... authorities say that he is not a terrorist. Whew. Except for the little fact that Ahmad was already on the terror watch list. Instead, Ahmad says that he is "mentally ill." Ahmad's mother says that he had recently been in a mental institution.

But then it gets worse. Ahmad is a government math teacher Miami Central High School. In fact, the government recruited him to teach at Miami-Dade schools.

So let's get this straight. Tahmeed Ahmad (born in Kuwait) is placed on a federal terrorist watch list. He is recruited by government schools to teach math. He assaults military officers saying he wants to kill Americans ... but he is not a terrorist, he is just "mentally ill." Now he is charged with assaulting a U.S. government employee.

Why the hell is this man still alive?

[svandamme]

lol Mule, wodka wielding terrorists, the end is near!
time to stock up on supplies and ammo, and head for the bomb shelter with a picture of Jack Bauer for moral support, a picture of the pope for spiritual support and a picture of Jenna Jameson for relief... do you have internetz down there?

[Mule]

Naaah, we just sit around & wish we were smart & European.

[Mule]

By the way, since ya'll are all advanced & what not, try that google search, Belgium riots. Let me know what ya find. Here all we have is that old hydraulic internet. We don't have that new fangled "electric" one so you might get different results. Let me know.

[svandamme]

we have riot's all the time, they actually have an agenda for it, i think next week the farmers are rioting against some EU law they don't like, the week after that it's the housewives that riot because they feel like it

i don't need to google for belgium and riots to know that occasionally there are riots
the police loves it, it gives them an exercise, get out the gear, teargas and crack a few skulls
big deal

right now we have riots with turks who are pissed off about the kurds, it ain't religious, it's nationalistic, turks pissed off at kurds, then kurds pissed off at turks, what do i care, all they destroy is their own neighborhood, 2 weeks from now it's ancient history,

[Mule]

Earth to Stijn, if you have riots "all the time" and every mention of riots relate to muslims, guess what? Are you lost, scared, terminally confused or what?