BMW 135i

[CurtEgerer]

I was hoping it would look good in person. It doesn't, it's very ungainly. I just saw it at the Detroit Auto Show. The cabrio looks OK, with the top down.

That said, I also did not like photos of the new M3 (is it the e90?). In person, it looked awesome.

[Noah930]

Curt: surprisingly good rendition of the new 1-series, with what you did to that 3-series car.

Actually, I'm one that likes the looks of the 1-series. Possibly a bit cartoonish, but somehow it works for me. It'll be interesting to see what the final weight difference will be between the two models. Not as much as what an enthusiast would hope for, so I've heard. Unfortunately, the fact that the price (like the weight) will also be a bit higher than what I was hoping for, will keep it from being my next daily driver.

[KaptKaos]

I have been wondering this for a while now, and I have not found a decent answer.

Why are there no small, rear wheel drive sedans (or coupes) with sporting suspensions and 4 cylinder motors? Why does BMW need to have a 3.5 liter turbo 6 in there? Why can't they put in a decent 4-banger? With gas costs being what they are, wouldn't it make sense?

To my knowledge, there are 2 4-cylinder rear driver cars on the market today; the MX5 (Miata) and S2000. However, old BMWs, Nissan 240SXs, Toyota Corollas, even Toyota Starlets are in high demand on the used car scene.

[gprsh924]

The 4-cylinders are great on gas in town, but they really leave something to be desired out on the road. I drive a 93 525 back and forth to school, usually cruising between 80-100mph and I still get about 25 mpg, sometimes better, depending on the wind and the traffic.

It broke down on me when I was coming home for thanksgiving so I had to rent a chevy aveo while the 525 was getting fixed. Not only did I have to drive slower, but the little engine that couldn't only netted me about 28mpg. Definitely not worth the downside in performance.

My dad also travels every week for work and is in a rental car every week. Now maybe if he was driving 65 everywhere he went, the cars with the 4 cylinders would be better on gas, but since he also drives in the 80+ mph range, he doesn't really see any improvements in those over the 6cylinder cars he drives.

[KaptKaos]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

The 4-cylinders are great on gas in town, but they really leave something to be desired out on the road. I drive a 93 525 back and forth to school, usually cruising between 80-100mph and I still get about 25 mpg, sometimes better, depending on the wind and the traffic.

It broke down on me when I was coming home for thanksgiving so I had to rent a chevy aveo while the 525 was getting fixed. Not only did I have to drive slower, but the little engine that couldn't only netted me about 28mpg. Definitely not worth the downside in performance.

My dad also travels every week for work and is in a rental car every week. Now maybe if he was driving 65 everywhere he went, the cars with the 4 cylinders would be better on gas, but since he also drives in the 80+ mph range, he doesn't really see any improvements in those over the 6cylinder cars he drives.

What modern 4 cylinder are you referring to?

Heck the Hemi Mopars drop to 4 cylinders on the highway to save $$.

[gprsh924]

They drop to 4, but they are still much bigger engine

As I said, I drove a Chevy aveo on the highway and only got 28 mpg, and that was going no higher than 80, because I wasn't too confident in it above that.

My dad has driven just about every rental car you can imagine (Kia's, hynduais, chevys, fords, mazdas, etc) over the past 9 months making the same drive from the Kansas City Airport to Topeka, and he has told me that he gets almost the same mileage from everything he drives whether they be 6 cylinders or 4 cylinders. Like I said in my very first post, technically I got better mileage with the smaller engine, but I don't see an extra 2 or 3pmg as that big of a deal when you consider the performance tradeoffs that usually accompany it. The worst mileage he has gotten is in a Kia Rondo.

Hell, I drive my Nissan Xterra with its 3.3L V6 on the highway and get around 14-15mpg. My mom's Lexus GX470 with the 4.7L V8 and gets 18-21 mpg.


I will put this disclaimer on everything I have said: When you start going above 65mph, wind resistance, rpms, etc start to play a much bigger role in what kind of mileage you can get out of a given engine. Perhaps if I (or my dad) drove more slowly, we would see more pronounces mpg gains in the smaller engines.

[the]

This is AMERICA, not some effite country like France or something.

We have no use for 4 bangers.

[KaptKaos]

Originally Posted by the

This is AMERICA, not some effite country like France or something.

We have no use for 4 bangers.

No problem, I'll take all of those un-used 4Cam engines that are just lying around.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

Why are there no small, rear wheel drive sedans (or coupes) with sporting suspensions and 4 cylinder motors? Why does BMW need to have a 3.5 liter turbo 6 in there? Why can't they put in a decent 4-banger? With gas costs being what they are, wouldn't it make sense?

I don't think BMW has a four cylinder available. Unless they want to use the Peugeot engine in the Mini Cooper.

[SLO-BOB]

I'm holding out for at least the Tii variant. It hopefully will address the issues that have been mentioned. It is somewhat lighter than the standard 135i (so a lot lighter than the 3) with bigger brakes, oil cooler, nice sport seats, among other things. Hopefully BMW will try to draw out the ludites like me with an old school, pared down, and especially cheaper car for the enthusiast.

The real deal would be a 135D. It would probably smoke just about anything short of the exotics. No plans for that, but they do have the 123D coupe in europe. It's a 200+ hp, high torque 4 banger that can hit almost 150 mph, 0-60in about 7 seconds, and eek out 50+ mpg if your light footed. That would be a nice car to have. I would take it above all other 1 series offerings.

Tii-

[Chocaholic]

Looks like an ugly version of an 04 Hundai. But a fast one.

[onewhippedpuppy]

The 2002 isn't fondly remembered for how nice it looked, but it was great from behind the wheel. I think the 135 will appeal in the same way.

[SLO-BOB]

Today is a 135i theme day I guess. Another thread about Jeremy Clarkson's scathing, albeit tongue in cheek, review of the STi features a bit of back and forth about the merits of the STi vs the 135i. I stand by my point that the two do not compare and that the STi is too expensive for what it is - a suped up econobox. However, I may have to rethink my assessment of the 135is value as well. I thought the 135i and the STi would sticker out at about the same price. I'm not so sure anymore after reading the Roundel that I received just today. The base price for the 135i is set near $35k. However, the options are quite expensive. For example, you could spend $2200 on the stereo alone! The premium package is $3500 or 10% of the base price of the car! Even modestly equiped, it's very unlikely you will leave the dealership much under $40k. It's also possible to option it out to head north of $50K! That is too much! For that kind of $$ you could select from a host of superior cars, not to mention a M coupe well up BMW's own product line.

I know the euro/dollar imbalance makes it difficult to bring a "cheap" BMW to the States right now, but this does not bode well for would be first time new BMW buyers. I was going to get on a list for the Tii. I'm thinking it will cost a minimum of $45k for that car. Just not worth it imo. Hmmm - maybe an STi wouldn't be so bad after all.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

To my knowledge, there are 2 4-cylinder rear driver cars on the market today; the MX5 (Miata) and S2000.

Lotus Elise? Saturn Sky? Pontiac Solstice?

But I get your point; the list is awfully short. And of the ones I listed, I can't afford the first one, and I don't know if I'd want either of the last two. Well, maybe if they were given to me for free...

I agree with the bit of sticker shock you mention, Slo-Bob. I perused the BMW website a couple weeks ago and thought $35K is a bit much for such a small car, IMO, technical brilliance or not. Factor in the real 'cost-to-buy' and that approaches $40K, easily. Too much money, for too little car, for my particular stage in life.

[KaptKaos]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Lotus Elise? Saturn Sky? Pontiac Solstice?

But I get your point; the list is awfully short. And of the ones I listed, I can't afford the first one, and I don't know if I'd want either of the last two. Well, maybe if they were given to me for free...

Good point. But like the Miata and the S2000, those are roadsters too and still aren't sport sedans or coupes.

[aap1966]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

The unladen weight of the 135 is 3378 lbs (from bmwusa.com)

The 335 is 3571 lbs (from bmwusa.com)

Thats a 193 pound difference

While that is still not the difference I would've hoped for in the smaller car, it is still pretty significant

Fair enough: I was referring to the Aussie spec cars, which tend to be higher spec as standard ( and also more expensive) than in other markets

[LeRoux Strydom]

In Europe and South Africa you can get the 116i, 118i and 120i, all with 4-cyl engines and RWD. Similarly the 3-series. Are these not available in the US?

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by LeRoux Strydom

In Europe and South Africa you can get the 116i, 118i and 120i, all with 4-cyl engines and RWD. Similarly the 3-series. Are these not available in the US?

No they are not. Thank you for reminding us.

BMWNA feels that the US market is a luxury market only for them. We don't have access to the cool stuff BMW offers like the 130i M sport hatch or the 123 diesel. In fact, right now, no diesels are offered at all. They are planning to bring the 535d and 335d to the States supposedly, but not so much for mileage issues as brute power. No 4cyl power plants are avalable at all.

[KNS]

I'd be curious to know what the 116i, 118i, and 120i weigh..? With little four cylinders moving them about I'd be willing to bet that they are pretty stripped down and light on the options and useless accessories. A nice, tossable, little RWD car.

Does anyone overseas happen to know what the four cylinder One series weigh?

[VincentVega]

I have a 318 e36, too bad they ended 4 cyl here. Great car.