HVAC DIY Question

Jims5543 · 02-14-2008, 03:00 PM

I arrived at my vacation home to find my downstairs heat is not working.

My outside compressor was frozen solid. I mean it was a solid chunk of ice.

Overnight temps were in the teens and while my upstairs zone worked the downstairs did not and the temps inside were below 50 degrees. We could see our breath when we were eating breakfast.

Its like pulling teeth to get a HVAC guy out here and I am wary of being "upsold" when this is probably nothing more than a slow freon leak and the unit needs to be filled.

Can you buy the freon and charge a system yourself? Sort of like your car.

I hooked a garden hose up to my washing machine hat water spigot and melted all the ice away, even the fan was encased in ice. I waited a couple of hours and turned on the heat, and it fired right up and worked, it even made heat.

I am 90% sure the unit is low on freon and that is what is causing it to ice up.

Pretty crazy huh?

peppy · 02-14-2008, 03:58 PM

I think heat pumps are not supposed to work much below 40 degrees. If there is moister in the air then they will freeze up.

No you can not buy the freon with out a license.

flashgordon13 · 02-14-2008, 04:12 PM

Wow that must have run a long time to ice up that badly. The unit likely uses R-22 refrigerant and can only be purchased with an EPA permit. You are correct in suspecting a low charge but it is hard to say for sure without putting gauges on to check pressures. Check the unit for a sight glass. Many residential unit don't have them, but if it does, you should not see any bubbles in it when the unit is running. If you see bubbles, the charge is low. If you don't see a lot of bubbles, you can try running it and keep an eye on it to see if it ices up again. If no ice build up occurs, the unit may have froze up because the unit did not go into defrost. With low temps the coil will freeze after a period especially when the humidity is high. You should consider having it looked at because running the compressor with the unit froze can cause liquid refrigerant to be drawn through the suction line and into the compressor. This can hydro lock the compressor and that's the end of the compressor.

Jims5543 · 02-14-2008, 04:30 PM

Its working fine right now, we are running it. I have seen it in the past go into defrost mode but you might be right it may not be functioning correctly.

I contacted a local HVAC outfit yesterday and they told me they would call me today and set up an appointment. The girl calls and the first thing she tells me is that this will be a cash only call because I do not have an account w/ them. I explain I am from out of town and do not have a lot of cash on me and prefer to use a CC and she says they do not accept Credit Cards. I tell her this will be a problem unless they can accept a check.

Then she goes on to tell me they are booked solid for 2 weeks. - Pass.

I am trying to track down this kid that Procon sent over last time I had a problem he was VERY honest and did a good job. Last time I had a problem he found it was a bad relay. $30 repair and $50 tip later he was on his way.

Hopefully we can track him down on Friday, I dread dealing with these HVAC companies they are almost as bad as Jiffy Lube places.

scottmandue · 02-14-2008, 04:35 PM

Flash nailed it!

And peppy is right, haven't been able to buy freon without a license since 1994 IIRC.

I just got my EPA license and NO I can't/won't get you some.

Also IIRC $70,000 fine if you get caught dumping freon into the atmosphere, not sure what the fine is for selling it to someone without a license but I'm not interested in finding out.

Probably more lucrative to sell coke and the penalties are lower too!

scottmandue · 02-14-2008, 04:38 PM

If all you want is heat those oil filled electric radiator dealybobs work pretty good!

Jims5543 · 02-14-2008, 04:43 PM

I have a few friends in Florida in the HVAC business and I know for a fact they upsell everyone. That is how they make their money.

I know certain forms of freon are illegal to buy as a consumer but I also know R-134A can be bought at Autozone. I was unsure what was in a residential A/C unit.

I leave Sunday to head back to Florida, I am showing the house to 2 people this weekend hopefully I will have a sale.

Meanwhile I cannot leave this heat on while I am not around monitoring it.

I hope to get someone out here before I leave but it seems unlikely unless this kid comes through.

BTW - He is licensed.

Jims5543 · 02-14-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmandue

If all you want is heat those oil filled electric radiator dealybobs work pretty good!

Its a vacation home I am not here for weeks on end. This last stint, it was empty for over 3 months. I hate to sell it.

I am also looking into turning it into a vacation rental and keeping it. Hopefully it gets booked enough to make it profitable. I am on the fence as to what to do.

Right now I just need this heat pump fixed.

scottmandue · 02-14-2008, 04:48 PM

Yeah, when they were drilling us for the EPA test (which was BS anyway) they didn't say much about reselling.

If you can't find the kid maybe you could bribe one of your Fl. buddies to come out and gas the thing up for you.

Just an idea.

wilke3169 · 05:12 PM

Jim, If it frosts up again, just put it in cooling mode for a few minutes. This is what happens when it goes into defrost. Actually a few other things happen but as far as the refrigerant cycle goes this is what happens. It is possible that there is a control problem that is not allowing it to go into defrost.
After defrosting which you have done with the hose just set it at a normal setting and see what happens. The label should tell you the refrigerant type. R-22 was the norm, some brands have since changed. If you want to drop me a PM with a cell number I would be happy to discuss it with you.
Oh yeah I did HVAC for a long time and had a state mechanical license, etc.

Good Luck,
Kevin

914GT · 02-14-2008, 05:55 PM

Make sure your outside condenser fan is working. If the thermal protect on the fan motor shuts-down after several minutes from an overheating winding, or fails to start up due to a bad starter capacitor, it will cause the coils to ice up exactly as in the picture.

Jims5543 · 02-14-2008, 06:14 PM

Fan is running strong. Everything seems to be working fine tonight. This evening is the 1st time I have fired it up and it seems o.k.

Kevin - Sending PM

carambola · carambola's Garage

dude, drop your hot water heater and get a boiler

Brian 162 · 02-14-2008, 06:38 PM

How's the airflow in the house?

I would check the filter, indoor coil and outdoor coil to see if they are clean.

Gauges on the system would tell you more.

914GT · 02-14-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

Fan is running strong. Everything seems to be working fine tonight. This evening is the 1st time I have fired it up and it seems o.k.

Kevin - Sending PM

Make sure it continues to run strong as long as the compressor is on. I've seen these fan motors run for as long as an hour and then cut out. Then once the coils ice up it's all over. It'll stay iced up as long as the thermostat is demanding heat, even if the fan motor restarts. These intermittent problems can be a dog to troubleshoot.