Health Care in the US

[1967 R50/2]

So, in summary, it sounds like people are peeved because the US healthcare system is somehow unfair, and that under a Universal Health Insurance system everyone would be equal. In theory I can see this being true.

However, the reality is, that when it comes to health, we ARE NOT equal.

I go to the gym 4 days a week, don't over eat, don't smoke and rarely drink. I have never done drugs. Meanwhile my fellow Americans are the most obese country on earth.

I think under these conditions, Universal Health Insurance could be extremely unfair to me, or to anyone who takes an active interest in their health. If anything it only gives companies incentive to drop coverage...after all you are already insured by the gov't.

So until, people stop smoking, drinking, and eating too many Doritos.... I just can't get behind any universal plan.

[Zef]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Great comeback!
Good evidence you have posted.
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

WTF RPKESQ....you don't already know than the USA are the better ones in all that can happen on this earth...Huuuu...in the solar system...

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by 1967 R50/2

I think under these conditions, Universal Health Insurance could be extremely unfair to me, or to anyone who takes an active interest in their health. If anything it only gives companies incentive to drop coverage...after all you are already insured by the gov't.

Well, countries with universal health care often combine this with user fees, or premiums based on lifestyle choices. You could be endlessly creative in structuring a system to reward those who look after themselves and incentivise those who don't.

And besides, even if you are healthy as an ox - you could be in a catastrophic accident tomorrow, or contract some difficult to treat disease which would have your medical expenses skyrocketing. That's the point of insurance.

[cel]

Everybody wants good health care and some countries are better than others. the disagreement is over a national controlled system or a capitalist one. Weather a national system or capitalist one will work will depend on the size of the country. As a population gets larger the costs go up due to more layers of management and possible corruption.

[snowman]

Originally Posted by 1967 R50/2

So, in summary, it sounds like people are peeved because the US healthcare system is somehow unfair, and that under a Universal Health Insurance system everyone would be equal. In theory I can see this being true.

However, the reality is, that when it comes to health, we ARE NOT equal.

I go to the gym 4 days a week, don't over eat, don't smoke and rarely drink. I have never done drugs. Meanwhile my fellow Americans are the most obese country on earth.

I think under these conditions, Universal Health Insurance could be extremely unfair to me, or to anyone who takes an active interest in their health. If anything it only gives companies incentive to drop coverage...after all you are already insured by the gov't.

So until, people stop smoking, drinking, and eating too many Doritos.... I just can't get behind any universal plan.

You may be in for a very unpleasant suprize. Your lifestyle will not protect your from your genes. You could come down with lung cancer (even if you were never near a cigarette), lupus, cancer of all kinds, diabetes and on and on. Some people are blessed, like George Burns, smoking stogies at age 100, it wasn't his lifestyle that made him live that long. Then closer to home there is my gg grand mothers, g grandmothers, grandmother, mother. All have lived to mid 90's and they all ate bacon every day, pig knuckles, real butter, whole milk, drank like a fish, and so forth. They were overweight, but did not have diabetes. Same for most of my grand fathers. Going back over 900 years. Exception, a grandfather, son of a man that lived until 95 and a mother that also lived till 95, his grandmothers family had all died of cancer at age 50 or so. Same for all his children (my father and aunts). I am still here at 59 and so are my cousins in the same genetic path. One is a cancer surgeon at Fox Chase, Harvard medical degree. He knows that it is genetic and he is at the same risk as I am.

Lifestyle choices can make a difference, but they may not be as big as you are expecting.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by snowman

FK french fries and the place named after them.

You cannot deny the fact that French wait in line for simple procedures, that some die in the Queue.

This does not happen in the US at a rate even close to that in France. The US HAS UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, the best in the world, it does not have universal insurance.

IN general that means that the scum of the earth have to eventually PAY for their care, if they earn any income. Unfortunately most do not.

Come on big boy. Put up or shut up. Post evidence or quit lying. Joeska is still waiting for you to keep your word. How long will he have to wait? I hope not as long as we are going to have to wait for your "evidence". The only "scum of the earth" we see is you!

Poor snowedman, drank too much "USA is #1" koolaid and now it has bit him in his sorry ass.

Waiting...........................

Still waiting.................................

[Nathans_Dad]

Socialized medicine always sounds great until it's you that has to wait a month for your MRI. Then you think socialized medicine sucks.

The US should keep the private insurance system in place and simply expand medicaid to cover all legal citizens. If you choose to use the government medical system you will have to wait longer and go to less nice, more crowded facilities. Those that choose to keep their private insurance will have faster access to care, but they will also pay for that privilege.

[trap]

[QUOTE=Nathans_Dad;4016738]Socialized medicine always sounds great until it's you that has to wait a month for your MRI. Then you think socialized medicine sucks.

A month would be great for a friend of mine who found out yesterday he needs an MRI. He has the best health insurance he can afford with a reputable company. It has a $5,000 deductible. The MRI will cost around $1,500 - he doesn't have it. His condition isn't life threatening but he's in a lot pain.

He won't be able to get an MRI - not now, not a month from now. He works hard, he pays his insurance premiums yet he doesn't have access.

[Aurel]

I don`t see why it would not be possible to have socialized medicine, and retain private insurance as well as private care for those who can afford it. That is pretty much the way it is in France. If you don`t want to wait a month for an MRI, you can pay a private clinic to do it, and have your supplemental insurance pick-up the bill.

Aurel

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Aurel

I don`t see why it would not be possible to have socialized medicine, and retain private insurance as well as private care for those who can afford it. That is pretty much the way it is in France. If you don`t want to wait a month for an MRI, you can pay a private clinic to do it, and have your supplemental insurance pick-up the bill.

Aurel

I agree - and this is the way it in fact is in much of Europe and Canada for example. True socialists argue against this approach because it means that those with money get easier (quicker) access to health care than those without money - and that this is fundamentally wrong in some way. Of course if you have money you have easier, quicker, better access to just about anything, from education, to women, to fine food and drink, to exotic holidays - so I'm not sure why medical care should be any different.

[snowman]

Wealth is an indirect measure of ones contribution to society. Society benefits if the most important people are taken care of first. Someone like Bill Gates, someone that provides 1,000s of jobs should get better care than joe blow.l Wealth is the best and most objective way to measure ones worth to society. It certainly isn't perfect, but its far better than the commie system of "who you know" gets the best care.

GB has both private and public health care, yet many come to the US for care. Why? Because socialized health care has ruined the state of the art of medical care in GB. Same for France and all of the EU. Don't let it happen here!!!!!

[1967 R50/2]

Originally Posted by snowman

Lifestyle choices can make a difference, but they may not be as big as you are expecting.

I'm afraid I don't get your point.

As far as I can tell, you are saying it is "fair", not only to pay for the fat consuming self abusive lifestyle of our fellow Americans, but also to pay for the genetic pre-dispositions which they often ignore?

Sorry....I refuse to be an enabler. If you know heart disease, addiction, diabetes etc, runs in your family, then it is your responsibility to take extra precautions.

It's your own body. If you're not responsible for that, you're not responsible for anything!!

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Zef

But you seem to do...

If you look over this, and the other threads on healthcare, you would know that indeed I am quite familiar with the situation.

If I tell you the sky is blue, and you say that is ridiculous, the sky is green, what is the point of arguing with you about it?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by snowman

Wealth is an indirect measure of ones contribution to society. Society benefits if the most important people are taken care of first....

Do you REALLY believe some of the crap you post ?

[snowman]

Do you?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by snowman

Do you?

Absolutely not. I do NOT believe some of the crap you post

[Mule]

Originally Posted by nostatic

didn't Michael Moore take the health insurance companies to task?

oh wait, he's the antichrist...never mind.

There's hope for you yet!

When I was a kid my parents would pay for health care out of their pockets. The doctor lived good & the cost was affordable. Insurance was uncommon. Lawyers and insurance companies have screwed this up. And Michael Moore is STILL a POS.

[snowman]

Originally Posted by KC911

Do you REALLY believe some of the crap you post ?

Its not crap, its a fact. The president of the US, Bill Gates, get much better health care than many of us, and they should. 100 of thousands of people depend on their well being. If we went the socialist, route then Bill Gates might die from the lack of care while a street sweeper gets it. Society is far worse off if Bill Gates were lost, than the street sweeper. Now if the commies get in control, eg Obama, then only the political elite get good health care, every one else dies. The USSR is absolute PROOF of this fact.

[Zef]

Originally Posted by Tobra

If you look over this, and the other threads on healthcare, you would know that indeed I am quite familiar with the situation.

If I tell you the sky is blue, and you say that is ridiculous, the sky is green, what is the point of arguing with you about it?

You still seem to do broth...

[jyl]

No point in spending much on medical care for our troops then - judged by their income, they don't contribute much ?

Originally Posted by snowman

Its not crap, its a fact. The president of the US, Bill Gates, get much better health care than many of us, and they should. 100 of thousands of people depend on their well being. If we went the socialist, route then Bill Gates might die from the lack of care while a street sweeper gets it. Society is far worse off if Bill Gates were lost, than the street sweeper. Now if the commies get in control, eg Obama, then only the political elite get good health care, every one else dies. The USSR is absolute PROOF of this fact.