Helicopter Pilots

[aap1966]

What happened here??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPL5w4R5iA0

[slodave]

The pilot apparently bounced off the landing platform, hooking one of the skids. He tried to lift off and the platform and stuck skid ruined the rest of his day.

Longer footage.

[Eric Coffey]

First instinct is that guy had no business flying a helicopter.
No part of that short approach and landing attempt was smooth. I'm certainly no expert (I do have a few right-seat hours in a R-22 tho ), but it sounds like one of the video commenters was on the right track: He may have been trying to land on a mobile heli-pad and got on it slightly cock-eyed, possibly teetering one skid off the side. Then, it looks like he pulls pitch to gain altitude and try again, but catches a skid and flips over.
Can't say for sure, but he could have been over his head experience-wise.

[Danny_Ocean]

Here's a re-enactment:

[Seahawk]

There is a lot going on in that video that I would need additional information to make an accurate assessment of what exactly happened.

I tried to find the accident report to no avail.

Early in my naval career, I was involved with three accident investigations so I never rush to judgment...what often seems quite clear early in the investigation can turn out to be a non-causal factor in the accident. I have over 4000 flight hours in over thirty aircraft and helo type model series.

A few observations. Since it is difficult to see the landing site, I cannot say for sure if he was trying to land on a raised platform...many flight centers that operate fixed, skidded helicopters (including med-flights, police) land on raised, wheeled platforms to ease the task of getting the helo in the hangar or in a designated parking area. It really isn't that hard.

It appears he had a very shaky landing. I don't think it was so bad that it would have caused what is called, "ground resonance"...a phenomenon that can literally cause a helo to shake itself apart on the ground

It also appears that the helo momentarily comes to rest at a tilt. This could have been caused by siding off the raised platform or a failed skid. Hard to tell since he bounced to port quite a bit on landing. Most raised platforms are fairly narrow.

In the video after the helo rolls, you can see the left skid and it looks fine. But, again, looks can be very deceiving.

What happen after he momentarily comes to rest with a tilt is very odd. Bear with me.

When the rotor of a helicopter turns it produces reaction torque which tends to make the craft spin also on vertical take-off. On most helicopters a small rotor near the tail compensates for this torque. When a pilot lifts the "collective" control, power to the main rotor increases and all main rotor blades increase pitch collectively...to counter the reaction torque, the pitch on the tail rotor must also be increased or the helicopter will spin.

I can think of a few things that would have caused the helo in the video to spin so severely:

- Loss of tail rotor power. This is every helo pilots worse nightmare. If the drive shaft to the tail rotor (TR) should fail in any manner, or the TR transmission fail, the helo will spin and bad thing happen.

- Loss of TR control. Control of the TR is managed by what fixed wing folks call rudder pedals. There is a host of control mechanisms, hydraulic acuators, etc. between the rudder pedal and the TR. Failure of any of them means the pilot no longer can input to the TR. Depending on when and at what power setting this failure occurs, the helo can spin.

- Loss of TR authority. It is possible to exceed the limit of the TRs ability to counter the torque reaction. There is a bunch of ways to do this but the video highlights two potential loss of TR authority.

1. If a skid gets stuck under something on the ground, it is possible that the pilot will pull more than normal power if he is not aware of the stuck skid. At very high power settings it is possible that a sudden release of the skid can caused the helo to exceed the TRs design control parameters momentarily and the helo will spin. This happen to me one nigh on the back of a frigate, but that is another story

2. With one skid hooked to the ground with a pivot point, is it possible that the helo will spin around that pivot point as the pilot increases power.

Sorry for the long ramble...

[Rikao4]

what Hawk said,
or as a Pilot informed me years ago..
Helo's are not meant to fly...

Rika

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

Helo's are not meant to fly...

Rika

They are so ugly the earth repels them

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

Helo's are not meant to fly...

Rika

They don't fly.

They are so ugly, the earth repels them.

[Dantilla]

Dang. Ya beat me by a few seconds.

[gatotom]

throwing in my 2 cents..... my son who is soon starting his 3rd yr at USNA told me while at home during his summer leave, no, I don't want to fly jets, anyone can fly planes. Helos is were it's at.

After watching that show, Carrier, on pbs and watching the hassle of the jets landing on a pitching deck in 30' seas, Jet pilots have a very dangerous job, their timing and reflexes have to be unbelievable.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by gatotom

throwing in my 2 cents..... my son who is soon starting his 3rd yr at USNA told me while at home during his summer leave, no, I don't want to fly jets, anyone can fly planes. Helos is were it's at.

After watching that show, Carrier, on pbs and watching the hassle of the jets landing on a pitching deck in 30' seas, Jet pilots have a very dangerous job, their timing and reflexes have to be unbelievable.

Nothing again the carrier folks, but do a search on LAMPS MKIII and see what it's like to land on a frigate in 30' seas

I have been fortunate to fly every type of plane. They all have their merits. BTW, a good friend of mine has a son entering his third year at USNA!

[allaircooled]

Nothing again the carrier folks, but do a search on LAMPS MKIII and see what it's like to land on a frigate in 30' seas

I just got out of the Navy a little more than a year ago after serving almost 12 years. Served on both a cruiser and a destroyer. Saw plenty of times these guys and gals land on what I think is a ridiculously small place to land a helo in all kinds of weather. Simply amazing. I am also working on becoming a helo pilot. I am headed towards a major career change.

[Rikao4]

Hawk know's Helo's,
I sat in Medical seat, I'm part of the crew..until I have a body..I'm crew
one reason for the bad record for civilian Med .missions.
Not enough eyes..and $
lowest paid person is the pilot,
not enough eyes,
do it cheap..
this is what you get.
Rika

[rattlsnak]

I saw a news chopper try to land on a platform today at RDU, and it took him a solid 5 minutes after hovering above it at @ 3-5 feet to put it down. Wind kept blowing him sideways everytime he was about to touchdown. I thought for sure he wasnt going to make it, but he finally did.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by allaircooled

I just got out of the Navy a little more than a year ago after serving almost 12 years. Served on both a cruiser and a destroyer. Saw plenty of times these guys and gals land on what I think is a ridiculously small place to land a helo in all kinds of weather. Simply amazing. I am also working on becoming a helo pilot. I am headed towards a major career change.

I wish you all the best, Shipmate

[allaircooled]

I wish you all the best, Shipmate

Thanks!!

[Eric Coffey]

allaircooled-
Cool deal! Most folks going for their civilian rotorwing ticket start out in fixed wings to build hours, then switch over to heli's after they have their private license. As soon as you see the hourly rates on heli rental, you'll know why!

Regarding the video-
The thing is, to be flying a turbine Eurocopter Squirrel, you would think he would have been more proficient and/or reacted to the situation better.
By the time you transition to turbines, you should be able to air-taxi a Robinson onto a platform in 20 knots o' wind, no problemo. You should be competent enough to know when it's a no-go as well. Seeing as the Robinson trainer is one of the smallest, least stable heli's out there, if you can master flying it, you can probably fly any "swing-wing".

[aap1966]

Seahawk,
Thanks for your point of view.
Appreciated.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

. As soon as you see the hourly rates on heli rental, you'll know why!
".

I had to give it up after getting 26 hrs in a R-22 At $245 an hr, I couldnt swing it anymore.

It definately looks like he was landing on a platform. You can make out the wheels under the plne in front of it.

He should have taken some lessons from the chinese guy with the homebuilt helo!

[allaircooled]

Yeah its's expensive, I have about $5k rapped up into in now. Have been on hold for a little bit but as soon as I move back down to FL I will start up again. I love flying helos and will eventually do fixed wing when all my helo training is done and I find a job!!