Tough situation, aggressive dog...

[Nathans_Dad]

You probably have a point. We got Lucy and worked with her as a puppy. We had another dog, Bailey, at the time. Bailey was an older Lab and she has since been put down due to old age. A lot of the problems started when Bailey left. I think Bailey was Lucy's "security blanket".

We did not take Lucy to the park and such very much as a puppy, my wife was pregnant with our 3rd child at the time and of course 3 kids under 5 takes a lot of time. Now that Abby is getting older maybe my wife could start taking Lucy to the park but 3 kids is a handful without adding in a dog too.

I did daily walks with her for a while but that stopped about 4 months ago. I plan to resume the daily walks with her, I think it will do her good.

In any case, we have had dogs before and they did not show aggressive tendencies despite getting the same "training" that Lucy did, sit, stay and down. That's it.

I am hoping that she can turn into one of those fantastic dogs with some effort. If not, I'll find a place where someone else can perhaps do a better job than I can.

[Drdogface]

Rick,

You have gotten suggestions which are all over the map but they are sincere opinions so not to fault them. Now, I am a Vet and not a dog behavior specialist by profession but of course I've been pushed somewhat into that arena during my career. Cats who are that aggressive are usually hard wired that way and there's not much anyone can do to change it. Dogs, on the other hand, are not usually wired that way except in a few breeds which have a disposition to aggressive behavior

It sounds like Lucy knows that her aggressive behavior is not acceptable but does it anyway. I really only have two things to try but have worked for me on dogs that need some behavior mods. One is to just keep her on leash in the house....all the time and where ever she is or goes for a period of time...maybe two or three weeks. The other has worked wonderfully for me for years. Take an empty beer can/soda can and put about 1/2" of small pebbles inside then tape the top shut. When she does her aggressive stuff THROW (not gently toss) the can at her...even hitting her...it won't hurt so don't cringe at that suggestion. She will be very repective of this can from now on....Next time she acts up just rattle that can and she'll likely snap to and behave. All I have to do now with my Aussie (who used to run away when getting out of the car) is to just show him the can...he trots right up to the door of the house. Now, of course, after the behavior stops each time, due to the can, give immediate verbal and physical praise...even maybe a treat.

I think you should try this....it has ALWAYS worked for me and others I've suggested it to. A dog's main focus in life is to please you...help her learn how.

Now, all you bone heads who think I'm cruel to do such a thing to a dog are free to flame away

Gimme some report if you try this...I'd like to know...

[KaptKaos]

Rodsrsr,

As a former dog owner (German Shepherd too), and a victim of a dog bite (17 stitches), I have a unique perspective. In no way would I want Lucy put down, but sometimes people refuse to acknowledge the real danger they face. Therefore I do not mince words, particularly when there are young children involved. Take it however you like, but I place the safety and well being of children above that of the dog's.

Assuming that the training works, Rick will have a great dog. If the training doesn't change the behavior, then Rick has to place his family first.

YMMV = Your mileage may vary i.e. this is my experience, yours may be different.

[Nathans_Dad]

Minor update.

I took Lucy out for a walk today. She did pretty well, we worked on her not getting in front of me when walking and she got the hang of it after a block or so. We sat and watched cars go by for a while and that did not seem to bother her.

Now for the interesting part. We were walking up our street and our neighbor (the one who trains dogs as a hobby) was out in her yard. She walked over to us (she knows what is going on with Lucy) and when she got to about 6 feet away Lucy growled and tried to jump at her. I had her on a VERY short leash the whole time so it was more of an attempted jump. I sharply told her no and she sat down behind me. I then proceeded to have a calm conversation with the neighbor and Lucy had no other issues. She even laid down behind me. I'm not really sure what to make of that, on the one hand it does show that her aggressiveness extends outside of the house but on the other hand I'm not sure what it means that she seemed to have an issue when the person was approaching but not while they were just standing there.

[onewhippedpuppy]

You're playing with fire Rick. Do you want to ALWAYS worry about the dog? What happens when you're not around, but your kids and kids' friends are?

[Dana Norris]

This behavior is known as fear aggression, oft times this can be dealt with, with
training, sometimes maybe not. I have been there with a Border Collie, Mac was our third Border so we were familiar with the breed, we went through several classes with him including one with a trainer familiar with this condition to no avail at 16 months we put him down ( very painful on all of us )after he had bit me in the face for the 4th time and this was after i had played with and been involved with his training from the time that we got him at 12 weeks old. Such a waste !
Here is a photo of my two buds Molly and Moe, you will get over it if that is what you have to do to Lucy, these two are how we got through it,although it still hurts to this day.

[aigel]

1) Dogs have different characters. One may be fine with little attention, others need more socializing to get to the same behavior. A dog that is from a line of strays may actually be less social than a dog that has been selected over many generations to be a family pet.

2) Sounds like you have a special situation with the old dog raising the young one. Not you. Now the companion is gone and the young dog feels lost.

3) You say this dog Lucy got the same treatment than your other ones. Really? I am pretty sure your past dogs got more attention growing up in a much smaller family.

Looks like you are on the right track. I hope you can turn this around for Lucy. If not, you should be analyzing your current situation carefully and reconsider getting another dog. It may be a good idea to go dog-less for a few years until the family is older and you can give a dog the proper care.

Good Luck!

George

[Flyer88]

We had this happen with our first dog - we got her three weeks after we got married. He was great with us and even with our 2 cats most of the time. Very high strung (Border Collie/Spaniel mix) and always got real skittish when anyone picked up a broom or like object - we adopted her from Sicsa at about 3 months and just figured someone had proably beaten her at some point. When our first son was born he would act real strange and even growl if Austin got near - he eventually bit Austin twice although never breaking the skin (probably because we were always close by). Since we had just had our second son, Aidan, we decided it was just too much of a risk and he went to live with my inlaws in Flordia - they have about 12 acres and 3 other dogs at the time. He ended up getting sick about a year later (thyroid) and died with his 3 buddies by his side. I cried more the day that he left than when I got the news that he had passed - I'm hoping his last year was a good one!
My wife adopted a Aussie who was 12 from a family who had to many medical problems to care for her. She had serious issues with any other animals but was great with kids. Had her evaluated by several trainers and rescue organizations and none would take her so we had to put her down before she killed a cat.
We just got a new puppy that loves the kids and gets along with the cats for the most part - she is much smaller but very active (Cheagle) - hopefully 3rd time is the charm!

[Nathans_Dad]

Ok, well we made a decision. We decided to take Lucy to a local shelter. It's actually tough for me to write this, that was possibly one of the hardest pet related things I have ever had to do. It was worse, I think, than having to put a dog down from old age or disease or whatever.

Her aggressive behavior today concerned me greatly. The behavior was one of lunging towards someone who was not showing her or me any aggression whatsoever. The lunging forward was a clear sign of aggression to me, to the point that I'm not sure if she would have stopped had she not been on a leash. I talked with a friend of ours today who comes over to our house often. She related that she didn't feel safe around Lucy. Even after coming over innumerable times in the last year, Lucy still growls and barks at her whenever she passes her kennel. Again, no one has ever shown aggression towards Lucy, at least not since we adopted her.

In the end it came down to a realization that I was putting my children or someone else's children at risk of harm in order to give my dog another chance. Even with training neither myself nor my wife would ever have felt comfortable leaving her alone with children or other people. In a house filled with 3 small kids and another one on the way, that's not a good situation to be in. She has already bitten my son once about four months ago. My youngest, who is just over 1, is starting to walk and who knows what she might innocently do to the dog that may provoke an aggressive reaction. I feel horrible that I had to take her to a shelter, but I would feel 100 times worse if she harmed my child or someone else's child.

After I had dropped her off, I had a chance to discuss the issue with our neighbor (the dog trainer). Her exact words were "Is it done?" to which I said yes. Then she said "You did the right thing." She went on to say that Lucy was showing some concerning signs to her that she would have done the same thing in my situation. For whatever that counts, it made me feel a little better about the whole thing.

For those who may feel the need to flame me or chastise me for this decision, please understand that this was certainly not an easy thing for me to do and I did what I felt was in the ultimate best interests of my family and those who live around me.

Thanks for the support and advice, I think our house will be dogless for at least a little while.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Yes, when she went nuts when the kid came over I grabbed her by the scruff and took her into our bedroom where I spanked her. As soon as I grabbed her she stopped and her tail went between her legs.

Not real good on your part. Have you never seen Cesar Millan on TV (The dog Whisperer)? I used his technique today on a customer's dog that wouldn't leave me alone. A little water in the face and the "shiiiittzzzz" sound and all I had to do was make the sound to make the dog behave.

Of course, I've been dumping water on dogs for years. I really don't like dogs, but I get along with them once I'm in control. I'm in control wherever I go if the owners don't see me and what I do.

[scottmandue]

You did the right thing.

I love all animals but no way you could leave an unpredictable dog around children unattended and inevitably that would have happened.

May God bless you and bring you happier days.