Gun guys...ballistics of a .44SPL?

DasBoot · 09-21-2008, 01:05 PM

I've read a few stories where .38's didn't have sufficient stopping power and am considering upgrading my daily carry to a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 SPL.

.357's are available in a small frame, but I hear there's a lot of unneccessary kick/muzzle-flip.

I don't really want to start a debate over which caliber is best, just seeking opinions on the .44SPL.

DasBoot · 09-21-2008, 02:52 PM

Are all the gun guys over in Politics & Religion defending our 2nd Amendment rights?

BlueSkyJaunte · 09-21-2008, 03:22 PM

"Stopping power"....hmm. Work on your shot placement and you won't have to worry about it.

Get a 5-shot .357m. You'll be able to run .38sp in it until you can handle the .357 (with some practice you'll do fine).

From everything I've read, Charter guns are pretty rough around the edges and there's a reasonably high rate of problems with them. "Made in the USA" isn't a guarantee of quality anymore.

id10t · 09-21-2008, 05:32 PM

I wouldn't feel undergunned with anything reliable, no matter what caliber - except maybe 25acp.

That said, a 5 shot 44 spl. is certianly "more" than a 5 shot 38, but... Federal has the new 327 magnum out, which is a longer 32 mag, and is available in super compact revolvers as a 6 shot instead of the 5 that a 38 would give. May want to look at that. Or perhaps a small auto, since the 44spl charters are bigger than the small 38s available...

Anyway, at the gunshop I help out at and post auctions for, we have a hard time keeping lightweight 38 special revolvers in stock. Seem to sell 4 or 5 a week, and then have to tell 3 or 4 more folks "this one is sold and waiting for pickup, but we'll have more middle of next week"

jt1 · 09-22-2008, 05:18 AM

There are lots of different opinions on stopping power and which caliber is "best" for a purpose.

In general, the 44 spl falls about midway between the 38spl and the 357 mag. It's fairly close to the 45acp, depending on the load.

For a concealed carry revolver, it's hard to beat a model 60 S&W in 357. Then you have your choice of 38spl, 38spl+P, or 357mag ammo. It's a very versatile setup.

John

Rot 911 · 09-22-2008, 06:11 AM

Everything is a trade off in weapons. Keep in mind what the purpose of the pistol is. You are not the cops holding off meth crazed bank robbers with auto rifles. More likely as not you will need your pistol in a situation where someone is out for a quick buck and you are perceived as weak and vulnerable. In those situations a .38 will get the job done. Those type of individuals are discouraged from further mayhem just by seeing your gun. The remaining don't need to be shot more than once to give up the fight.

You need to carry a pistol that you are comfortable with and can hit what you are aiming at. That .357 Charter is a ***** to shoot, much less hit anything with.

targa911S · 09-22-2008, 06:55 AM

everything you want to know about ballistics is here.

http://www.remington.com/Products/Ammunition/Ballistics/

Superman · 09-22-2008, 09:52 AM

I've been looking into handguns. Partly for general purpose/personal protection but largely for backpacking. I found there are as many different viewpoints as there are gun owners. A number of reliable sources insist that a .44 Magnum, at least, is required to confidently stop a grizzly bear. But....I don't plan to see many grizzly bears. Still, I am interested in something that's more than a straw and a spitwad. I'm somewhat in love with the .45 ACP. It's narrow and can be fairly light. Has decent shocking and/or penetrating power. And the double-stack can hold 13 rounds. If I ever do need to use it, I will pull the trigger a number of times. Thirteen seems better than six.

targa911S · 09-22-2008, 10:45 AM

If 6 shots of a .45 acp don't stop them stop shooting and run like hell!

aigel · aigel's Garage

I have shot that exact gun. Bulldog Pug in .44 special. I was very impressed how accurate I could place shots with it. It kicks pretty good - definitely shoot it, if you were looking into it for "low recoil". We had shot non crimped cheap ammo and the bullets would come out of the casing on the loaded rounds to the point where the drum would be blocked.

I would buy this over a .38 snub and would pick it up if I could find one used for cheap. My take is that these guns are reliable. They are not as well finished as say a S&W but that does not make them unreliable!

Gunblast really liked it: http://www.gunblast.com/Bulldog_Pug.htm

Cheers,

George

id10t · 11:34 AM

Superman - I've got a black stainless Taurus Raging Bull in 454 casull up on gunbroker right now... load it down with "light" 45 LC loads for plinking, up to the big 454 stuff... Or if you'd rather stay with the 1911 and 45acp, I've also got a Paraordnance p13-45 listed too!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SellerAuctions.asp?User=797437

RPKESQ · 09-22-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

I've been looking into handguns. Partly for general purpose/personal protection but largely for backpacking. I found there are as many different viewpoints as there are gun owners. A number of reliable sources insist that a .44 Magnum, at least, is required to confidently stop a grizzly bear. But....I don't plan to see many grizzly bears. Still, I am interested in something that's more than a straw and a spitwad. I'm somewhat in love with the .45 ACP. It's narrow and can be fairly light. Has decent shocking and/or penetrating power. And the double-stack can hold 13 rounds. If I ever do need to use it, I will pull the trigger a number of times. Thirteen seems better than six.

A .45 auto is a poor choice for animal use, both as a hunting (survival) weapon and as a anti- large dangerous animal defense weapon. This cartridge was developed exclusivily as a anti personell round with extremely limited penetration capabilities. There is nothing wrong with the 1911 firearm platform, all the problems are with the cartridge.

There are just a few commonly available auto pistol cartridges that are truely usefuse for wilderness mixed use (both on animals and people), the Sig .357, the 10mm are two. Both with proper bullet sellection (handloading only) could be made useful.

All or the rest of the commonly available handgun cartrigdes are really revolver only (no cartridges the are not semi-rimless should be depended on for reliability in a semi-auto). A a .41 magnum is bottom of the bucket, .44 magnum, hot loaded .45 Colt, a .454 Casull, .500 S&W magnum, etc. It should be noted that Alsaska keeps very good records on bear attacks and bears killed in self defense. No .44 magnum was used successfully for bear defense as of a few years ago when I last checked. BTW the smallest cartrigde use successfully was a .22! Pure luck with that one.

Now you may fish or hike in an area where there are not Brown Bears (grizzly, Kodiak) and have to contend with just Black Bears and people. Then anything from a .357 Magnum on up will do with proper bullet selection. A hot handloaded 9mm or .40 or a 10mm is a great choice for a semi-auto. If you really wish to use the .45 Auto cartrigde then you will need to load it quite hot and the 1911 platform is ill suited to handle that stress. Try a Glock for that use.

The biggest problem with semi auto pistol use for large anti animal use is bullet selection. There are no commercially available proven hunting bullets suitable for semi-auto pistol use in the larger calibers (over .22). You would have to handload and cast or machine (for monolithic solids) your own bullets.

A Charter Arm pistol of any caliber is subpar for serious use. Yes it is far better than nothing but for the same price you should be able to pick up a used high quality are like a S&W, Colt, Tarus, etc.