Lord Stanley

[billybek]

That was a good clean check.....
Caught Havlat looking at the ice, but I bet he won't do that again...
That is the wussification of the NHL showing itself in that penalty and game suspension.
Just my 2 cents worth....

[89911]

Originally Posted by billybek

That was a good clean check.....
Caught Havlat looking at the ice, but I bet he won't do that again...
That is the wussification of the NHL showing itself in that penalty and game suspension.
Just my 2 cents worth....

Yes, it was a "clean" hit, but do you really want to turn on the game and watch some guys eye's rolling up his head and appear to be dead? Hockey is played at a much faster pace then even football and I wonder how even more aren't forced out of the game with concussions. Would you rather have a team of talented players or goons taking runs at anyone with the puck? My $.02.

[Porsche_monkey]

The league sends ambiguous messages about what is acceptable. Havlat never touched the puck, but he could have, maybe even should have. I do not believe either referee called a penalty during the play, I think the linesman called it after the whistle. It was a blow to the head, a play that I fell should be banned, but technically is not.

In my view that hit crossed the line, but I accept that it is not clear cut.

[billybek]

Where do you draw the line on hitting?
Face it, Havlat took his eye off the defender that he knew was there. If you look at the replays you can see him look up ice at the defender who has a history of lowering the boom on unsuspecting players and not all of those have been clean hits. Then puck focus takes over and he takes his eye off the defender. Had Havlat been more aware he wouldn't have been unconscious on the ice.
There have been deliberate attempts to put guys out with hits away from the puck and with elbows up. Justice in these instances should be quick and harsh.
I don't like seeing guys get hurt, but I don't want to see the game neutered either.
The way the game is called now takes the responsibility out of the player's hands to deal with their own to police the game and the behavior of players. In the old days a guy trying to put others out of the game wouldn't be around long before becoming a victim himself. I am not saying that the old way is the way to go either. The game is always in transition with rule changes that make things better and worse. Whatta ya do??

[89911]

Man, these games are just too easy. The Pens are just way too talented for the Canes. I hope they don't win in 4. It will seem like a month until the Finals.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by 89911

Man, these games are just too easy. The Pens are just way too talented for the Canes. I hope they don't win in 4. It will seem like a month until the Finals.

We are making them look bad. I guess Malkin really likes his Moms cooking
I heard on the XM NHL channel that if both sweep they'd move up the finals by like 10 days. Well no sweep for the Wings but if it's 4 & 5 game series maybe they still can move them up. Now I'm not counting any chickens here!
I certainly don't think the NHL wants to lose the momentum they've got by having the finals so far removed. Obviously the hockey fan will watch but the casual fan may move on.

A little rant here... ESPN sucks. 20 minutes, or more coverage on the NBA every sports center and the NHL get's maybe 3. The story they did on the Wings/Blackhawk game from Friday night was hidious. They didn't even friggin' mention how the game transpired. Hawks up 3 zip then the Wings score 3 goals in a little over 4 minutes in the 2nd period to tie it. If you didn't watch the game and just listened to those clowns you'd never know what drama was in the game.

GO PENS!!!!!!!

[89911]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

We are making them look bad. I guess Malkin really likes his Moms cooking
I heard on the XM NHL channel that if both sweep they'd move up the finals by like 10 days. Well no sweep for the Wings but if it's 4 & 5 game series maybe they still can move them up. Now I'm not counting any chickens here!
I certainly don't think the NHL wants to lose the momentum they've got by having the finals so far removed. Obviously the hockey fan will watch but the casual fan may move on.

A little rant here... ESPN sucks. 20 minutes, or more coverage on the NBA every sports center and the NHL get's maybe 3. The story they did on the Wings/Blackhawk game from Friday night was hidious. They didn't even friggin' mention how the game transpired. Hawks up 3 zip then the Wings score 3 goals in a little over 4 minutes in the 2nd period to tie it. If you didn't watch the game and just listened to those clowns you'd never know what drama was in the game.

GO PENS!!!!!!!

Ever since the NHL and ESPN parted ways, you can usually find Hockey highlights in between Nascar and College lacrosse. I do have the NHL network on TV and listen to XM's Hockey stations. ESPN is NBA basketball 24/7. I'd rather watch lacrosse.

[exitwound]

The hawks are absolutely playing terribly. Horrible defense, stupid penalties. The wings are just walking all over them.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by exitwound

The hawks are absolutely playing terribly. Horrible defense, stupid penalties. The wings are just walking all over them.

Geez, and the score shows it. Did get to see the game, (shhhhh... talking to a mechanic about a 3.6 for the Carrera).
89911... The pic with you and the cup, is that when the Pens one in 91-92? Very cool being able to put your paws on it!

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by billybek

Where do you draw the line on hitting?

I think hitting a defenceless player with the puck in his feet is borderline. Watch the replay and you see him follow through with his forearm and leave his feet. Still, I can see how people see it as a normal hockey hit. I just think it shouldn't be a normal hockey hit, at least not an unpenalized one.

Originally Posted by billybek

Whatta ya do??

I have no idea, but whatever they do half the fans will gripe.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Porsche_monkey

I think hitting a defenceless player with the puck in his feet is borderline. Watch the replay and you see him follow through with his forearm and leave his feet. Still, I can see how people see it as a normal hockey hit. I just think it shouldn't be a normal hockey hit, at least not an unpenalized one.

Defenseless because Havlat did do what he was supposed to and made himself vulnerable. Look again at the tape and you'll see that Kronwall was pulling back before the hit happened. He could have delivered even more power if he wanted to. Kronwall left his feet after the hit, not during.

[Sonic dB]

Hvlat was defensless only because he allowed himself to be. The hit was legal, clean and just good agressive hockey.

As for Hawks defensman Brian Campbell calling the hit "gutless"....well his own history of gutless hits makes his comments ironic....and his putrid play this entire series costing his team goals left and right make his comments downright pathetic. He blows chunks.

[89911]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Geez, and the score shows it. Did get to see the game, (shhhhh... talking to a mechanic about a 3.6 for the Carrera).
89911... The pic with you and the cup, is that when the Pens one in 91-92? Very cool being able to put your paws on it!

Yes, it was during that time period. I was working downtown (dantawn) at a Dental practice and someone that was working their was dating someone within the Pens management. Even these people get the cup for a day. He basically showed up at work with the cup for anyone to check out up close. Fortunately someone had a camera. This before the digital age.

[Lothar]

Stick a fork in the Canes. They're done.

[exitwound]

Penguins are unstoppable! Malkin has shown why he's the best player in the game.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Wouldn't it be just peachy to have the Stanley Cup & the Lombardi Trophy both in the steel citay

One step away

GO PENS!!!!

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by exitwound

Penguins are unstoppable! Malkin has shown why he's the best player in the game.

I think we will see evidence to the contrary, (possibly on both points, but definitely on the first) shortly.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by billybek

Where do you draw the line on hitting?
Face it, Havlat took his eye off the defender that he knew was there. If you look at the replays you can see him look up ice at the defender who has a history of lowering the boom on unsuspecting players and not all of those have been clean hits. Then puck focus takes over and he takes his eye off the defender. Had Havlat been more aware he wouldn't have been unconscious on the ice.
There have been deliberate attempts to put guys out with hits away from the puck and with elbows up. Justice in these instances should be quick and harsh.
I don't like seeing guys get hurt, but I don't want to see the game neutered either.
The way the game is called now takes the responsibility out of the player's hands to deal with their own to police the game and the behavior of players. In the old days a guy trying to put others out of the game wouldn't be around long before becoming a victim himself. I am not saying that the old way is the way to go either. The game is always in transition with rule changes that make things better and worse. Whatta ya do??

The athletes playing hockey have changed a great deal. The yare bigger, stronger and faster than ever. The sport has not changed to keep up with that. It is inherently dangerous yes but there are steps that should be taken to bring that risk down. Heck when I played in high school I didn't even wear a mask and sticks were not curved.

The wussification of hockey is a patently absurd notion. These men can end up paralyzed with one cheap shot to the head. The NFL has an unnecessary roughness rule, the NHL should as well.

The hockey goon is not as prevalent as he once was but they are still out there. Even classless buffoons like Avery are on the decline. But hits like the one being debated are open to question.

If Havlat had been carryingthepuck across the middle with his head down and taken that hit there'd likely be no debate. But he wasn't. Kronwell could have simply put the body to him and taken him off of the play just as effectively. He did not need to endanger the man's livlihood.

So how to enforce the prohibition against that type of hitting? It will for the time being need to be after the fact, on tape review. Then eventually players will learn.

[Porsche_monkey]

Well put Flatbutt.

Compare the headhunting of todays NHL to what is allowed (or more specifically disallowed) in the NFL. Anything APPROACHING a head shot at a quarterback in football is a suspension. Fighting and 'headhunting'. still allowed in the NHL, have been culled from every other contact sport. (except UFC).

Let's no forget that concussions were routinely ignored in the NHL (still are in some places). The hits today affect the injured player and his team more that they used to because players sit for longer periods of time now when they do receive a head injury. (that's a good thing).

Not only are players bigger, stronger and faster, their equipment that protects them is also more dangerous to the player getting hit. Compare the rock hard plastic elbow pads, shoulder pads and chest pads of today to the leather covered equipment of only 15-20 years ago. Big big difference to the guy on the receiving end.

Players will 'learn' when the cost of a dangerous hit exceeds the benefits.

I'm not a hater, I love hockey, I rarely miss a playoff game and I watch over 100 regular season games each year. But the game scares me right now. Someone will be killed eventually. The game and players needs to be reigned in before that happens.

[m21sniper]

I think if you took the hitting/fighting out of hockey no one would watch it all in the US. I mean it's a distant 4th place sport in the US to begin with.

Frankly i find it boring even with those elements because of the lack of scoring and the WOEFULLY inconsistent refereeing.