Lord Stanley

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Porsche_monkey

The statistics do not back you up. Check save percentages (both career and series) for Osgood and Barasso. Lots of 'mediocre' goalies have won the Stanley Cup. A great goalie can help you win. It is not an absolute necessity.

The statistics do back me up. The majority of stanley cups have been won by dominating goal tenders.

Would you really argue that putting Roy on the Flyers Legion of Doom teams would not have resulted in numerous stanley cup championships?

Those teams had everything but great goal tending.

Conversely, put the typical average goal tender in net for the Devils and there is no way, no way in hell, they win all those stanley cups.

I'm not into hockey now, but all through the 80s and 90s i was.

[Zef]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

That may very well be true. And if they meet it will
A Canadain not liking hockey???!!!!! Isn't that like a greedy capitalist not liking money?

The interest is gone for some years....I liked a lot the NY Islanders in the eighties with Bossy-Trottier-Gillies-Potvin-Smith-...The interest just went away.....

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Yep.

"Only God saves more."

Dude you are not old enough to remember that bumpersticker

[m21sniper]

Yes i am (though just barely).

I remember when the Bullies beat(literally) the Russians too. Ran the "best team on earth" with the "best goaler to ever live" right out of the damn Spectrum.

The Reds wouldn't even finish the game until Flyers owner Ed Snyder threatened to not pay them.

Cowardly commie punks.

[TimT]

I liked a lot the NY Islanders in the eighties with Bossy-Trottier-Gillies-Potvin-Smith-

"The drive for five"

I was at the last series of playoff games where the Islanders came so close to their fifth Stanley Cup...

Alas it didn't happen. That was some good Hockey

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hockey is ALL about the goaltending.

So you are picking Columbus over Detroit? After all, no sane knowledgeable hockey person would pick Osgood over Mason.

Statistics are NUMBERS. Not a gut feel, a supposition, or a half formed thought.

Recent Stanley Cup winners career save %

C. Ward - 0.893
N. Khabibulin - 0.908
D. Hasek 0.923
E. Belfour - 0.906
C. Osgood 0.907
T. Barasso 0.892

There are some dominating and some mediocre numbers in that list. Admit it or not.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

The statistics do back me up.

You forgot to show your statistics

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Conversely, put the typical average goal tender in net for the Devils and there is no way, no way in hell, they win all those stanley cups.

Actually the Devils had their best stretch of the season, statistically speaking, when Brodeur was hurt. Their game is all about limiting shots, forcing shooters to the periphery, and making the goalies job easy.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I'm not into hockey now, but all through the 80s and 90s i was.

It shows.

[m21sniper]

If you are going to attempt to argue that the Devils were anywhere near as good without Brodeur i must seriously question your hockey knowledge.

The majority of Stanley cups have been won by dominant goalers. A average goaler winning the stanley cup is an exception, not a rule- and in almost all cases said average goalers get RED hot during their playoff runs.

But alas, i really don't care to argue the point much for hockey is really just a 2nd tier sport in this country.

[Sonic dB]

Chris Osgood moves up to #4 all time in playoff shutouts, along with in the top 5 all time playoff wins and top 10 all time wins. Do the math.

[89911]

The Pen's ARE better this year. The trades made, coaching change, and health (Crosby) make this a better team. As far as who cares, most are right. Quick, who won the cup 2 years ago? I find hockey the 2nd most interesting sport to watch, especially now with HD TV.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Sonic dB

Chris Osgood moves up to #4 all time in playoff shutouts, along with in the top 5 all time playoff wins and top 10 all time wins. Do the math.

But he's not that good.....

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by rick v

only the lord saved more than bernie parant

lol!

[Por_sha911]

In the playoffs
-A bad goalie will guarantee an early vacation but a great goalie does not mean getting the cup. You have to have good defense-men to clean up the rebounds and take away the 2nd chances.
-You have to have hot scorers. Good defense only gives you a shot but the biscuit has to go into the other net to win.
-Depth is important
-Multi-faceted players are key. Chara is a defense-man that can fight and still shoot from the top of the key. Thomas can make good outlet passes.
Boston hasn't looked this good since Bobby Orr!!!!

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by Sonic dB

Chris Osgood moves up to #4 all time in playoff shutouts, along with in the top 5 all time playoff wins and top 10 all time wins. Do the math.

Let's not forget that some of the great goalies played in an era when there were only two rounds of playoffs. Cut his shutout total in half to compare him to goalies pre-1967.

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

In the playoffs
-A bad goalie will guarantee an early vacation but a great goalie does not mean getting the cup. You have to have good defense-men to clean up the rebounds and take away the 2nd chances.
-You have to have hot scorers. Good defense only gives you a shot but the biscuit has to go into the other net to win.
-Depth is important
-Multi-faceted players are key. Chara is a defense-man that can fight and still shoot from the top of the key. Thomas can make good outlet passes.
Boston hasn't looked this good since Bobby Orr!!!!

All valid points. Aside from referring to the slot as the key.

You also need luck, as an injury to a key player is usually insurmountable. And you need one easy round, finish in four or five games while your next opponent plays seven.

[Buckterrier]

[QUOTE=Por_sha911;4615453]In the playoffs
-A bad goalie will guarantee an early vacation but a great goalie does not mean getting the cup. QUOTE]

Boy you got that right. What was his name for Philly, the goalie, named the MVP in the cup finals in a losing cause. Only time it's happened I believe.
Ron... it's on the tip of my tongue!!!

[Rick V]

Hextal

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

In the playoffs
-A bad goalie will guarantee an early vacation but a great goalie does not mean getting the cup. You have to have good defense-men to clean up the rebounds and take away the 2nd chances.
-You have to have hot scorers. Good defense only gives you a shot but the biscuit has to go into the other net to win.
-Depth is important
-Multi-faceted players are key. Chara is a defense-man that can fight and still shoot from the top of the key. Thomas can make good outlet passes.
Boston hasn't looked this good since Bobby Orr!!!!

I have watched RED HOT goalies completely and single handedly shut teams down in the playoffs so many times it's not even something i consider uncommon. (Any flyers fan from the Lindros era will remember the epic series the Beezer and Broduer have had against the Orange and Black)

But yes, generally speaking, all those other things are very useful to have- but they all pale in comparison to an elite top flight blue chip hot goaler.

Goaltender is, quite frankly, the single most important position in sports. Any sports.

Originally Posted by Porsche_monkey

You also need luck, as an injury to a key player is usually insurmountable. And you need one easy round, finish in four or five games while your next opponent plays seven.

Luck is the key in the form of deflections that create- and deny- goals.

Hockey is a flukey sport that is often decided solely by a totally fluke bounce.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Boy you got that right. What was his name for Philly, the goalie, named the MVP in the cup finals in a losing cause. Only time it's happened I believe.
Ron... it's on the tip of my tongue!!!

Hexxxxxx-talllllllll

He really was, in many ways, a great player that totally revolutionized the position. However he also had a knack for letting in a soft goal at the exact wrong moments, ruining so many otherwise great performances it is not even funny.


In many ways he absolutely epitomized what it means to be a Philadelphia Flyer.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Rick V

Hextal

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hexxxxxx-talllllllll

He really was, in many ways, a great player that totally revolutionized the position. However he also had a knack for letting in a soft goal at the exact wrong moments, ruining so many otherwise great performances it is not even funny.

In many ways he absolutely epitomized what it means to be a Philadelphia Flyer.

Yup. That's it. What a shame for him. I have to agree with Sniper on the goalie discussion. In what other sport can you 'ride' a player? In Hockey you can ride a goalie to hoisting the Cup. Except for Hextal
And btw... Burasso's playoff save % was .902, better than his regular season %.

[Porsche_monkey]

Just to let the so-called 'experts' here know some facts:

In the ten years that the Stanley Cup was been awarded between 1996 and 2006 the goalie on the winning team had a lower playoff save percentage than the losing goalie seven out of ten years.

Only 30% of the time did the winning goalie have the better save percentage.

Barrasso's save percentage was 0.907 in 1992 (0.885 on the season) and 0.919 in 1991 (0.896 on the season). He had a 0.892 career save percentage.

A flukey sport? Someone should tell the consistently good teams (Red Wings, Devils, Sharks) that they might stop being lucky any day now.