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Make Bruins Great Again
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Great goaltending is more than percentages. Its making the key saves at the right time. Its about not cracking under pressure and keeping focus for the entire game.
One goalie I really miss is Hasek. You just never knew how he was going to play the puck. Also, it was always a hoot when he would "forget" that he couldn't stick handle worth a flip. If Tim Thomas can stay consistent, I think the B's have the cup this year.
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04-19-2009, 07:08 PM
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Slumlord
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,983
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Quote:
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04-19-2009, 07:11 PM
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The fact that goaltenders totally dominate hockey is so obvious that i've never actually seen anyone attempt to argue that they don't before.
This is virgin territory to me. Goaltending is about a hell of a lot more than save % viewed as a stand alone stat. It's the save % when the game is close and in doubt, or when you're behind, that matters. Not the overall %. I would have thought this was obvious to any hockey fan. And yes, Hockey games are absolutely decided by total fluke deflections all the time. I've seen shots go in off players rearends before. That's skill? I think not. Random dumb luck. The only positions in any other sports that even remotely approach the importance of a goaler are your ace starting pitcher(not really since he only plays in at most 25% of his teams games) in baseball and a big time NFL QB. Last edited by m21sniper; 04-19-2009 at 11:53 PM.. |
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04-19-2009, 08:09 PM
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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Sniper is correct--no sport i can think of has a position like goal--where if not up to par, the team will almost certainly not win- and when dominate--can literally carry a team to a championship or at least farther than the team's talent or standing would predict.
Some exceptions--Ken Dryden used to remark that his Canadians teams of the late 70's grew to be so good/dominate that even if he had a poor game--they would shrug it off and win anyhow. That said, percentages and numbers are a portion, but the real thing comes down to the goalie getting into players heads (to a degree). Once a goalie becomes hot--players often try to cut the line too fine-try for the perfect shot or play-and the result is often misses on good opportunities. Also hot goalies can literally demoralize the opposing team--Anyone remember Patrick Roy winking at Thomas Sandstrom vs LA in the finals? Grant Fuhr would let in a few-but when it mattered the most--he would almost never allow THE goal to swing momentum or allow the opposing team to win. Hasek was so good in Buffalo that it took an illegal goal for Dallas to win a cup. My goalie scouting report this play-off yr: Osgood: can certainly win the cup with Detroit--he may not be the best goalie out there-but has won them before--knows what it takes--and does not have to carry the team. Lundqvist: in NY is playing incredibly well--could carry the team a ways--but NY has to start scoring more if they want a shot. Luongo: in Vancouver can carry that team a long ways-they have alot of talent. Brodeur:--Always have a shot with Brodeur--not sure enough scoring though. Hiller:--Watch out for Ducks--2 excellent goalies--and a very experienced team-dark horse to go the distance. Biron: in Philly--played better in Gm 3--don't think Philly will win cup with him though. Fleury: Can be unreal--makes the million dollar saves--sometimes the nickel and dime stuff gets in though. Pitt can be a threat to go a ways if he gets on a roll. Kiprusoff: Calgary goalie overworked again this yr. Capable of stealing a series, but don't think in the cards this yr. Khabibulin: Young Chicago team--not sure quite ready to make the whole run--lots of talent and Nicolai can certainly be a game stealer. Mason: Columbus biggest mistake was drawing Detroit first--no chance to get rolling. Mason good--but learning experience only this year. Mason: St Louis--not enough team this yr--credit to him and team to make play-offs. Thomas: Boston-unorthadox fighter--great story-never gives up on a play. Boston can win cup with him. Price: Montreal-can be dominant-confidence seems to be up and down-he is young, not sure he can carry this Montreal team. Ward: Carolina--has won the cup, I liken him to Thomas or Osgood, very good, capable of winning it all--don't think they will though. Nabokov: San Jose: being outplayed by Hiller right now. Has to be a little better, but a very fundamentally sound goalie-not sure is a series stealer though. Theodore/Varlamov: Washington--Theo is very inconsistent-has not been a game stealer for some time-not enough info on the Russian rookie--he played well in gm 2 vs NY though. |
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04-19-2009, 10:30 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 21,159
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Just the fact that goalies are referred to as game and series stealers as Abby mentions above tells you their importance.
There are no 'series stealing' skill players in hockey. Not a one. |
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04-19-2009, 11:40 PM
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Slumlord
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,983
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As for 'fluke' events. The success of the 'better' teams year over year refute this fact. Yes, flukey things happen, but they rarely alter the course of a game, let a alone a seven game series. You could certainly argue that a football team is more susceptible to 'fluke' events than a hockey team. Losing a single regular season game in football can end a season, that is almost never true in hockey. Same with playoffs. Football is one and out. Tony Roma anyone? No on refers to a 'series stealing skill player', because the entire premise is that the best team wins, ergo better skill players deserve to win, there is no theft involved. In contrast, a goalie that shuts down the oppositions offence has committed theft, the 'better' team loses. There are still a dozen or so 'game breaking' players in the league. And about the same number of great goalies.
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84 Cab - sold! 89 Cab - not quite done 90C4 - winter beater Last edited by Porsche_monkey; 04-20-2009 at 05:25 AM.. |
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04-20-2009, 04:56 AM
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You could have the greatest goalie of all time, if you don't score, you don't win.
A combination of both is what is needed to go far in the playoffs. Also a team with depth. You need priduction from your third line as well. Bill |
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04-20-2009, 09:59 AM
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Banned
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Location: South of Heaven
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Actually if your goaler is Ron Hextall, you might still win. He could score too.
 Goaltender is the most important position in team sports. I've seen the Beezer stop Flyers Legion of Doom onslaughts in a playoff series that were utterly overwhelming. He single handedly delivered the Panthers a series win vs the Flyers in the prime of that teams era. He was so phenomenal that Bobby Clarke traded for him as soon as he was available. And i do remember Bernie Parent playing too. I've seen games where the flyers of that era were completely and totally outplayed but Parent would have none of the other team scoring. Only god saves more. Last edited by m21sniper; 04-20-2009 at 11:00 AM.. |
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04-20-2009, 10:55 AM
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Here we go...
I HATE the penguins and particularly cindy crosby. I've heard about his intensity and I don't question his frickin talent, but all I have seen over the last few years was him complaining and diving. About the only player I hate more is that tool avery. I bleed Orange and Black and cannot wait til the Cup is paraded down Broad Street. Game 2 of this series showed that the Flyers absolutely can play the penguins. It's so annoying to see a call like the one on Richards at the end of the 3rd period that led to the tying goal...even the announcers were making fun of the officials that it was NOT a penalty but not allowed to do anything about princess crosby's team...no no no! The 2 penalties by my Flyers in OT, completely stupid, they deserved to lose in OT by being that dumb, they just should not have been there in the first place! See, the Flyers are obviously knowing how to play them now as evidenced by the closer game where they led in pittsburgh, and then smoked them in Philly. Clog up the middle and take away their speed. Don't allow them to streak into the zone and when they get there, hammer them, esp cindy c. Get him off his game and also malkin and you have a killer game...as long as you are allowed to acutally check the other side. BTW, do any of you who are watching the game notice how obviously the penguins are running Timonen? Every time he is on the ice he is getting hammered starting with Kunitz slamming his knee into Timo the first shift...and Kunitz was going for knee on knee, you watch a replay and it'll be pretty obvious. Timonen on the ice makes crosby shake like the a gurl. Go Flyers... |
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04-20-2009, 12:14 PM
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No one said the Flyers would get swept. Come on its a 4th vs 5th seed. Your goalie is a sieve. Like you weren't shaken when he was looking back at two EASY goals 25 seconds apart. At least they were kind enough to let the Pens celebrate clinching game 5 in Pittsburgh. Thanks Flyers.
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04-20-2009, 02:09 PM
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Slumlord
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,983
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This should be interesting...I'll check back when the series is over.
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84 Cab - sold! 89 Cab - not quite done 90C4 - winter beater |
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04-20-2009, 02:23 PM
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On the East I think Boston is looking really strong. Don't go celebrating in Philly or Pitts yet.
Bill |
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04-20-2009, 02:25 PM
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Lurkasaurus
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SK, Canada
Posts: 930
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A starting pitcher is much more important than a starting goalie.
Put Walter Johnson on the mound with just about any team behind him - bunt a few guys around FTW. I don't care if you have Tretiak between the pipes, if you don't have good defensemen - any team that can pass will fill that net with rubber. I like this quote: "The first time I faced him (Walter Johnson) I watched him take that easy windup and then something went past me that made me flinch. The thing just hissed with danger. We couldn't touch him....every one of us knew we'd met the most powerful arm ever turned loose in a ball park." - Ty Cobb It would have been cool to see that! Anyway... Fuk the Flyers, goon hockey blows. Anyone but them - even the Habs.
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Tony '77 930 "Objects in mirror are losing" "Oh cock..." - James May |
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04-20-2009, 02:32 PM
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An Ace pitcher at MOST pitches 1/4 of the time for his team(and to do that he has to be in a 4 man rotation and always pitch complete games). A goaler in the playoffs is there for every single second of every single game. Not even remotely comparable. I think you could make a decent argument that a Closer is more important in baseball than any one starter is. Just look at Lidge last year for the Phils. Come the 9th inning when he stepped on the mound to close a game, it was over. No ifs, ands, or buts. Just over. |
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04-20-2009, 03:16 PM
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Lurkasaurus
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SK, Canada
Posts: 930
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lol
A top closer throws 70ish innings a year.. the ace of the rotation about 200+.. and you think the closer is more important? "THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION IN SPORTS!"  lol
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Tony '77 930 "Objects in mirror are losing" "Oh cock..." - James May |
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04-20-2009, 03:34 PM
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Yeah, they play hard, that's why gurls don't play. My bud knows more about hockey than anyone I know, and when he admits the Flyers are unfairly targeted and have the legacy of Broad Street Bullies, it carries weight. You want to debate hockey with someone, I'll get you his email. And lastly, I think that if the Flyers continue to harass cindy c and malkin and clog up that neutral zone, I can easily see pissburgh going down. Fuk the pinguins |
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04-20-2009, 04:16 PM
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Starting pitcher in baseball being more important, it's not close. Now if you'd said starting rotation you may at least have an arguement. Go Pens!!!
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04-20-2009, 04:19 PM
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Take a deep, deep breath, exhale slowly. Now tell us... how do you really feel? Let those feelings out. Then we'll have a group hug. 
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O2 In Sully We Believe |
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04-20-2009, 04:23 PM
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Banned
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Really no player in baseball is remotely comparable to a goalie. Nor is any position in baseball remotely as important as goalie. This is widely held conventional wisdom. Don't make me bust out the SI and ESPN links to make you eat crow. Last edited by m21sniper; 04-20-2009 at 04:54 PM.. |
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04-20-2009, 04:28 PM
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I honestly cannot believe anyone would argue the point, but whatever:
By Terry Frei Special to ESPN.com The most important position in sports? Randy Johnson doesn't pitch every day ... The hockey goaltender. No contest. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2003/story?id=1557003 Monday, November 10, 2008 Whats the most important position in sports? #1 NHL-Goaltender Roberto Luongo, Martin Brodeur, Patrick Roy - these elite goaltenders can put a team on their backs and carry them to victory. This is one position that can dictate a game and win a Stanley Cup. No Stanley Cup winner has ever had questionable goaltending. When looking around the league, most if not all the teams that are contenders have solid goaltending. When a goalie sucks, the team sucks - when the goalie rises, the team rises. Look at Roberto Luongo and his recent streak of 3 shutouts. When the other team can't score, they can't win. Simple as that. Posted by JH29 at 8:31 PM Labels: 2009 nba championship, for a team, goaltending, important, mlb, most, nfl, nhl, pitcher, point guard, position, quarterback, sports http://jib-sports-culture.blogspot.com/2008/11/whats-most-important-position-in-sports.html ------------------------------- Rangers coach John Tortorella said he is happy with the results, so far, but didn't kid himself or his players that they have played perfect hockey. After saying that the goalie is the most important position in all major sports, Tortorella took comfort in having Lundqvist — the one he considers the best in the NHL. "The goaltender has more to say about winning or losing, than the starting pitcher, the point guard, whatever," Tortorella said. "Your goaltender is your mind as a team. How he's playing is how your team will react off of him. "I like his fight. That's important for his teammates to see." http://news.realclearsports.com/news/ap/sports/2009/Apr/19/rested_lundqvist_ready_for_garden_party_vs__caps.h tml ------------------------------ Few positions in sport are as influential and directly tied to franchise success as the NHL goalie. Only the NFL quarterback is as important to victory, but that is another discussion for another day. http://www.examiner.com/x-2141-Colorado-Avalanche-Examiner~y2009m3d1-Who-is-the-best-goalie-ever ---------------------------------- "Centers are important in the league and centers are very important to the Minnesota Wild," assistant general manager Tom Lynn said. "We feel it's the second most important position behind the goaltender and a position we wanted to upgrade. Wes has played that position and played it well for years." http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2925301 ----------------------- Starting pitcher, please. At BEST a starting pitcher can guarantee you a .250 winning %(and more often a .200 since most teams use a 5 man rotation- and that's assuming a 1.000 win % and 0 no decisions, which is ridiculous), at most he will play in 25% of your games(and usually only 20%), he rarely offers any offense at all(whereas a top passing goalie is an invaluable offensive tool), and he spends fully one half of the game sitting on his butt in the dugout. The only other position remotely close to a goaltender is a QB. That's it, the only one. Of course, i already said that. Last edited by m21sniper; 04-20-2009 at 04:56 PM.. |
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04-20-2009, 04:37 PM
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Max
