At a crossroads - any advice?

[Jim Richards]

einreb, I thought your career path was to become a famous Lemons racer.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by einreb

You may find that working at a smaller company would allow you to stand out more as a performer and not just feel like a wheel in a cog.

Absolutely without a doubt. I find the corporate structure of a big company to be restrictive at best, absolutely idiotic at worst.

[911Rob]

Hey Matt,
Thanks buddy, I see we're agreeing so I'll elaborate for you.
I can't think of anybody that has an ambitious bone in their body that wouldn't agree that self employment is the way to go; however there is a huge gap between those that do and those that don't.

I think it comes down to the "I can" or "I can't" attitude? If you focus on the reasons why you can't, then you can't. People can have a list of reasons, but guess what? It only takes ONE reason; so find the best reason and ride that puppy all the way home.

If you really want to jump the gap, make a plan.
I've got a wife and kids too buddy, so what?
A self employed person is JUST THAT.

My first real big venture in self employment involved setting up a development company that I was the President and CFO of, I did all the work, built the company from zip to one of the largest development companies in Calgary; yadda, yadda. I traded my paycheque for two business partners that had the capital to back me. For that I paid out 70% of my profits to them. I arranged to take a small, cost of living salary monthly and went about building the company; walking the tight rope.

In less than 5 years I owned 100% of the company by buying out my partners with my 30%. Did I have it all figured out from the get go? No. Point is that I was my own boss.

I tell you this because it's a decision; you can or you can't? If you can, then get on with it man! Make the plan..........

If you're worried about your wife and family, then how much cash do you need in the bank to make you feel comfortable? Then get on with putting that cash in the bank. Whatever it takes, if the goal is to be self employed, then you will be, plain and simple.

Design your own life, there is no can't.

[jyl]

Am not close to the aerospace industry but do watch it from a distance. So here goes and sorry if I have my facts wrong -

If you've only been at the company for 1.5 years, you've probably been there through a sharp and severe industry downcycle, during which raises and promotions would logically be hard to come by. Simply keeping your job in this downcycle may be an achievement in itself. Getting lots better pay, satisfaction, and stability by jumping to a different industry this exact moment, especially one as troubled as commercial construction, seems like a low-odds bet.

In general, I agree that in many companies/industries, switching companies is the primary way to advance. Stupid really, but there you are. And making false promises to employees is terrible management. So I can certainly see the wisdom of job-switching. But whether 2009 is the best time to do it, is another story.

From 30,000 feet, neither aerospace nor commercial construction look to me like growth industries over the next several years.

[onewhippedpuppy]

On the upside, there is a local route available as a MAC tools seller.

[einreb]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

Design your own life, there is no can't.

The 'professional services engineering' business is a tough one to be an 'entrepreneur' as a very young engineer. It just not particularly conducive to that sort of move early on in a career.

On the mechanical 'consulting engineer' side, a young PE and and older non-licensed but connected engineer is often the seed 'team' to start up a business... but I don't know how/if that applies to the aerospace industry.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by einreb

The 'professional services engineering' business is a tough one to be an 'entrepreneur' as a very young engineer. It just not particularly conducive to that sort of move early on in a career.

On the mechanical 'consulting engineer' side, a young PE and and older non-licensed but connected engineer is often the seed 'team' to start up a business... but I don't know how/if that applies to the aerospace industry.

All true. I would be further handicapped because the bulk of my experience lies in managing projects. I don't have any specialized skills (stress analysis, CATIA design, etc) that would be appealing to a company. Worse yet, there's a move away from contracting out engineering, at least in our local companies. Much cheaper to hire an engineer than hire a contractor at 3x the wage. The bulk of our outside suppliers are for component level parts and assemblies.

Any potential self-employment opportunities would probably lie outside the field of engineering, unless I have some epiphany that will make me millions.

[Seahawk]

Whatever you do, Matt, have a plan: plan the plan, work the plan, adjust the plan but you're got to have a plan

The grass being greener is not a plan, hope is not a metric.

You are a bright young man, you'll figure it out...I'm pulling for you, as I imagine all the folks here are.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Whatever you do, Matt, have a plan: plan the plan, work the plan, adjust the plan but you're got to have a plan

The grass being greener is not a plan, hope is not a metric.

You are a bright young man, you'll figure it out...I'm pulling for you, as I imagine all the folks here are.

Don't worry Paul, I look before I leap. Right now I'm just not sure where to look.

[911Rob]

Originally Posted by einreb

The 'professional services engineering' business is a tough one to be an 'entrepreneur' as a very young engineer. It just not particularly conducive to that sort of move early on in a career.

On the mechanical 'consulting engineer' side, a young PE and and older non-licensed but connected engineer is often the seed 'team' to start up a business... but I don't know how/if that applies to the aerospace industry.

couldn't argue with you there.

[911Rob]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Don't worry Paul, I look before I leap. Right now I'm just not sure where to look.

in the mirror man

[legion]

Is now a good time to switch jobs?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Don't worry Paul, I look before I leap. Right now I'm just not sure where to look.

Matt, you are absolutely the last guy I worry about...no kidding.

In the Navy when you search for survivors we use a technique called, "expanding square". Start at the last known datum and fly a disciplined series of ever expanding squares trying to ensure no gaps in coverage.

Do the same with your search. There are some basic questions you need to grapple with, but starting the search is the first step on knowing not only where to look, but what to look for.

I was your age when my obligations were met for the Navy (wings plus six years). I made sure I did my absolute best due diligence to convince myself I should leave the Navy. I really wanted to make sure that if I stayed in I would be comfortable with the choice, no regrets or lingering doubts.

I imagine this thread was the first step on that journey. Take your time, ask a lot of questions and listen well.

That and buy and sell a car every four months.

[Jim Richards]

+1

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Very true. But what happens when you spend time and money developing a resource, then lose it? You spend time and money finding a new replacement resource, then time and money to develop the new resource. Assuming that the new resource can be developed to a similar skill level as the old resource, eventually you've spent a lot of time and money to return to square one. In the meantime, your overall productivity has dropped while the new resource is being developed, leaving your project behind schedule and over budget.

If you do the math, it's pretty easy to justify paying your employee what they're worth, i.e. what your competitor offered them to leave you.

That's just plain old school talk that should come out of my mouth. You should know better at 28. Remember, you're working for 30 somethings.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by milt

That's just plain old school talk that should come out of my mouth. You should know better at 28. Remember, you're working for 30 somethings.

Ah ha! Now we've identified the problem!

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Matt, you are absolutely the last guy I worry about...no kidding.

In the Navy when you search for survivors we use a technique called, "expanding square". Start at the last known datum and fly a disciplined series of ever expanding squares trying to ensure no gaps in coverage.

Do the same with your search. There are some basic questions you need to grapple with, but starting the search is the first step on knowing not only where to look, but what to look for.

I was your age when my obligations were met for the Navy (wings plus six years). I made sure I did my absolute best due diligence to convince myself I should leave the Navy. I really wanted to make sure that if I stayed in I would be comfortable with the choice, no regrets or lingering doubts.

I imagine this thread was the first step on that journey. Take your time, ask a lot of questions and listen well.

That and buy and sell a car every four months.

Honestly, I respect the opinion of many folks on this BBS. Except tabs. There's already been posts that have given me a different perspective to mull over. As an engineer type, I tend to analyze everything from 10 different directions before I make a move, I suppose that this is part of that process, as you are suggesting. For the selling car thing, I've got that covered. XJR for sale ETA 1 week.

[RoninLB]

just another wild thought


Years ago I knew a project manager from Grumman Aero very well. There was always an EE waiting to be picked for NYFD. They were FD buffs to begin with. Their education made climbing the ladder easy. They worked 3 or 4 days a week @ FD and had time to free lance as an EE etc.

And Grumman was not a boring place to be with F-14 and lunar projects galore not including being flown to some carrier in an unknown part of the world to track a ground problem causing a malfunctioning computer.

[onewhippedpuppy]

NYFD = New York Fire Dept?

[onewhippedpuppy]

After some thought I've decided to clean up my resume, apply for some positions, and see what happens. If another opportunity comes my way then I'll take it. In the meantime, at least I have a job.

[einreb]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

After some thought I've decided to clean up my resume, apply for some positions, and see what happens. If another opportunity comes my way then I'll take it. In the meantime, at least I have a job.

Nothing wrong with that.

First engineering job I had was for a great owner of a nice little company. He took me under his wing and treated me like family. Unfortunately, I didn't like the type of work that they did and wanted to move in a different direction. When I went into his office and told him, I was shaking from being so nervous. He f!@#ing blew up at me... ranted for a couple minutes.

After the rant, he took a deep breath... asked me where I was going. He then told me I was actually doing the same type of thing he did and it was likely in my best interest long term. He never worked for more than 3-4 years at the same place for the first 20 years of his career before starting his own firm. He made tons of contacts, experienced different types of owners, met new client bases, etc.

Take care of yourself first. Do an honest days work for whoever you are working for, but in the end... moving around for the right reasons can build a good foundation for staring something up on your own in the future. Either as an independent 'consultant' or running a company.