Food, Inc.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by island911

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]

So, a cow is injected with a hormone, and that's bad, but a bunch of women have their faces injected with toxins, and that's okay?

Well you don't have to eat the woman.

Oh wait.....

[The Gaijin]

I think you guys are comparing apples and oranges - no pun intended..

Yes, if you go to the Whole Foods market and buy only fully organic food can cost a lot more money. At this point we just don't know how bad all these pesticides, fungicides and growth hormones really are.. Or not. (Not good I imagine.)

The thing any person or family can do is eat way less processed food and stay away from corn, corn sweeteners, too much sugar, crappy soy and the rest of the starchy crap they shovel at us.

Mostly, it takes more work - you have to cook more, you give up on convenience, no more fast food and ignore what the advertisers target you with.

Grass fed beef, wild caught fish, free range eggs, RtSB-free milk is not that much more expensive. And at the end of the day, if it is healthier, it is worth it.

[legion]

The point I was trying to make Gaijin is that if EVERYONE did those things, we couldn't make enough food for everyone. Those methods, while healthier, are really a luxury. There is only so much grass-fed beef, free range grass, etc. that can be produced, and it's WAY less than what is needed to feed everyone in the country.

[Superman]

This is heresy. Markets are efficient, and Big Business is looking out for you. Guaranteed, according to conservative economic theory. The best products at the best prices are guaranteed, as long as markets are not regulated. You believe that.......right?

[island911]

Markets DO have efficiencies. Standards are set by buyers. Bureaucrats use standards as a way to siphon money off a functioning market.

What time will you be at the Ale House?

[RPKESQ]

The French pay more for their food than any other industrialized nation. They happily vote and re-vote for farm subsidies that support local organic food production. There is no shortage of food in France.

The French relish the food in season (often with special recipies and festivals) and insist on the best quality. Food is sacred to them. I eat like a king here. All my food is locally produced within 100 miles of where I live and fresh . Olives, tomatoes, squash, melons, oranges, fish, mussels, crab, lamb, goose, duck, chicken, peas, beans, and most of my wine.

The industrial food production methods of the US are bad for health and bad for the environment. They are set up to maximize profits. This type of "money first" thinking is what fouled your finacial environment. It will and is doing the same for your food. It is not required to support large populations. That is an industry myth. Examples abound to the contrary.

GM crops are totally unsafe and unproven in the long run. Big Business has never cared about people when they are making their money. Anything they can get away with is fine with them.

I longingly look forward to my food in France every time I leave it. The processed crap available in the US in most resteraunts and stores is not fit for my dogs.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by island911

Markets DO have efficiencies. Standards are set by buyers.

Agreed. Markets themselves do efficiently perform the vast majority of their own regulation. In the words of Don Barzini ".....after all, we are not communists."

Originally Posted by island911

Bureaucrats use standards as a way to siphon money off a functioning market.

Cute. Whiny. Not really accurate though. Regulation does cost money. Lack thereof costs even more.

Originally Posted by island911

What time will you be at the Ale House?

That depends. As soon as I can. Certainly by six. I'd like to be there by five, but doubt it.

[911Rob]

I did watch this movie, although presented with a huge negative plot, there were solutions presented too. I resolved that I'm thankful of where I live and that we eat mostly fresh foods right from local farms here.

I also have some history with some cattle farmers in Alberta and the facts presented in the movie were taken out of context imo, and badly. I also have friends here that work in the food industry and the health regs that they have to surmise to are endless.

I cant change the world, so I'm just happy that our chickens and cows are all living like chickens and cows at their chicken-ness and cow-ness farms.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by legion

The point I was trying to make Gaijin is that if EVERYONE did those things, we couldn't make enough food for everyone. Those methods, while healthier, are really a luxury. There is only so much grass-fed beef, free range grass, etc. that can be produced, and it's WAY less than what is needed to feed everyone in the country.

That may be true in India - but not in the USA. Look at all the farmland that is now re-forested. Or land that is dedicated to growing corn for ethanol (another lobbyists boondoggle). Our parents generation is not that long ago and the population was not that much less.

Decent food is not a luxury and something we could afford.

[Superman]

I've been enjoying cooking lately, and learning the art. As it turns out, perhaps the most important aspect of cooking is.......ingredients. Presentation is important, using the proper spices, proper cooking method/temp/time. But the most important single variable is the ingredients. Start with fresh, whole, organically grown ingredients, and you really don't need spices or other tricks. The flavor of the food itself is the showcase. There is, for example, a huge difference between the fresh produce in the grocery store, and the fresh produce at the farmers' market.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by legion

The point I was trying to make Gaijin is that if EVERYONE did those things, we couldn't make enough food for everyone. Those methods, while healthier, are really a luxury. There is only so much grass-fed beef, free range grass, etc. that can be produced, and it's WAY less than what is needed to feed everyone in the country.

This is not true. It is not even truthy. It is just plain untrue.

There are a great many countries in the world which fed (and feed) themselves very well—and the US has vastly more arable land per capita than any of them.

Large scale industrial production of food—mainly processed food—is a phenomenon almost unique to the US. The result can be seen in what my nephew calls "the land of the fat people".

Complete bunk legion.

[Crowbob]

Seems to me if the food was so bad for us, it would be self-limiting. I am also having difficulty figuring out where all the little farms will be for the millions of people living in highrises in, say Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, LA, Toronto, Tokyo, Moscow, Mexico City..., I think you get the idea.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

I am also having difficulty figuring out where all the little farms will be for the millions of people living in highrises in, say Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, LA, Toronto, Tokyo, Moscow, Mexico City...,

Ever been to Paris? Or Rome? Or Athens? Or Istanbul? etc etc.

You go to your local grocer (usually on your block) for your daily needs. And once or twice a week to your local farmers market and supermarket.

You buy real food. (Not frozen cardboard boxes.) And you cook it.

It's very simple really.

[Crowbob]

Been to Rome, and Chicago, and Atlanta, and LA and Toronto. I'd love to go the Paris, and Athens. What you so lovingly long for is all good and healthy and noble and kind to the chickens and other living things. Unfortunately, it ain't gonna happen. It can't happen. All this talk about healthy food and stuff is upsetting my stomach. I eat crap and will regret it. I already do. But geez, we all can't eat oganic, free-range pomegrainuts. I am thinking about getting some chickens, though.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

But geez, we all can't eat oganic, free-range pomegrainuts. .

Yes, we can. The problem is not cost or arable land. The problem is lifestyle. If we want to order our meals through a window and eat them while driving, then we're probably stuck with poison for food. A change toward fresh, whole foods means a change in lifestyle. We would need to be willing to take the time and effort to cook/prepare the food, and sit and eat it. That would also probably mean gathering together in groups, or what we used to call "families." And we would relax. And communicate. So you see, this takes time out from our usual schedule of WORKING and commuting. Obviously unworkable. The important thing is to not let these small matters (families, health, etc) get in the way of our work schedules.

[island911]

Poison, eh? Can I get a beer to wash that down?

[Nathans_Dad]

Anyone who is saying that every issue raised in that movie is bunk just has blinders on and their head in the sand.

I am a conservative. I think that is evident by my posts on this forum. As a conservative I saw the slant in the movie. I accepted it and continued to watch because it was a fascinating movie.

Even if you don't buy every point in the movie, there are several issues that ring very true.

It is obvious that the explosion in obesity and diabetes in this country has come with the widespread availability of cheap, high calorie, corn based foods. It is ridiculous that in the movie a little girl wants some pears to eat but her parents say no because potato chips are cheaper!

Could those people eat healthier? I don't know, I can't say what their exact financial situation is. I will say that I see this issue at the store all the time. Why is mass produced milk $3 a gallon where as grass fed milk is $5? It's because the corn is subsidized to the point that the mass dairy farmer can buy corn cheaper than it costs to produce that corn.

If nothing else, the BS Monsanto is pulling with the soybean industry should get every conservatives hackles up.

Bottom line is that I have the means to buy locally. I am not hard core organic, I buy it when I can and buy non-organic when I can't.

Tell me this, though, how is buying from a farmer's market and supporting a local farmer bad? How is it better to put my dollars into a mega-giant conglomerate like Tyson??

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by legion

The point I was trying to make Gaijin is that if EVERYONE did those things, we couldn't make enough food for everyone. Those methods, while healthier, are really a luxury. There is only so much grass-fed beef, free range grass, etc. that can be produced, and it's WAY less than what is needed to feed everyone in the country.

Sorry, this is horseschit.

If we went completely away from the feed lot mentality, the American diet would change. It would not cause mass starvation.

Our diet might contain smaller portions of meat and larger portions of vegetables.

God Forbid!!! We might actually all get healthier.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Anyone who is saying that every issue raised in that movie is bunk just has blinders on and their head in the sand....

Every? ..who sez every?

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

....
It is obvious that the explosion in obesity and diabetes in this country has come with the widespread availability of cheap, high calorie, corn based foods. It is ridiculous that in the movie a little girl wants some pears to eat but her parents say no because potato chips are cheaper!

Could those people eat healthier? I don't know, I can't say what their exact financial situation is. ...

There's the rub. Those claiming "it shouldn't be this way.." are effectively saying "food should always be expensive." Sure, you can claim that you're not saying that . . .but you are.

Oh, and any nasty food handling that you see from the big evil food corporations can also be done by small farms. Also, remember the (movie example) good-guy who slaughtered his chickens the old-fashioned way? ...he will be up next to being demonized. --Yep, slitting the chickens throats when he could be gassing them to death. How inhumane of him and his evil big food business. --that will be the cry of the food elite.

Where does it stop?

[island911]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

...If we went completely away from the feed lot mentality, the American diet would change. It would not cause mass starvation.

Our diet might contain smaller portions of meat and larger portions of vegetables.
....

SO, you are saying that control on quantity ingested ought to come, not from personal decision, but rather by increasing the cost of food. --that's a control method filled with untended consequence.