Food, Inc.

[The Gaijin]

Let's not confuse animal rights activists and crazed vegetarians with having a healthy diet. There are many issues here and many controversial topics.


As for me, I see much of the food industry set up like the tobacco industry.

Does anybody really enjoy a smoke anymore? Does any of this pre-packaged crap really taste that good?

Everyone is constantly trying to quit smoking.. Everyone is constantly on a diet..

Low tar cigarettes compared to "low fat", "fat free", "organic" snack food..

The addiction to cheap carbs and corn sweetener is as bad as nicotine. The parallels - if you think about it are amazing.


Frankly, you can eat what you like. Even feed your kids what you like. Just pay your health insurance co-pays and rates based on your lifestyle.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by island911

There's the rub. Those claiming "it shouldn't be this way.." are effectively saying "food should always be expensive." Sure, you can claim that you're not saying that . . .but you are.

I'm not sure whether you're being deliberately obtuse here.

One of the points of the film was that when you spend a dollar on something made by "Big Food" most of that dollar goes to advertising, and fuel, and supplements, and fertilizers and chemicals and packaging and distribution and CEO Bonuses and shareholder dividends etc etc.

When you spend a dollar on something produced your local organic farmer, it goes to that farmer for his labour and costs.

And of course when you buy from the organic farmer, you are getting a massively healthier product.

You can see the result in the PNW where you live. Locally grown organic products are no more (or only marginally) more expensive than the stuff that is trucked in from Mexico or Texas. And they taste better. And they are healthier. And the are easier on the environment.

Cost is not the issue. Or at least it shouldn't be. It has far more to do with a certain respect for the food that you ingest.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Dottore

...Cost is not the issue. Or at least it shouldn't be....

LOL ...yeah, and gravity shouldn't be so strong either.

Originally Posted by Dottore

...And of course when you buy from the organic farmer, you are getting a massively healthier product..

There is no guarantee of that. Sure, there are "organic" farmers who deliver a better product, at times. But to imply that automation always leads to an inferior product is just wrong. ...and "massively healthier"? --I see no evidence of that. Don't get me wrong, I eat well, and avoid mainstream filler-foods, but c'mon "massively healthier"?

Regarding shipping. Tell me (off-season) is it better to have S. America blueberries (organic of course) shipped up, or no fresh berries at all?

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by island911

SO, you are saying that control on quantity ingested ought to come, not from personal decision, but rather by increasing the cost of food. --that's a control method filled with untended consequence.

No, I am saying that our government has created an artificial food supply. Without our government's interference, food would have continued to cost what it actually costs to produce + profit for the producer.

Is it your position that you want the government to continue to control our food supply? How conservative of you...

You are buying into the illusion of cheap food. Yes, soda is cheap at the market. You have already paid for some of it though through your tax dollars going to subsidize the production of corn.

Not only that, but you are completely ignoring the added cost of buying that cheap food. Take diabetes for example. Care to add up how much treatment for type 2 diabetes over a lifetime costs? Now add that cost into your food bill and see where you are. If you think about it a little that head of broccoli for $.99 starts to sound a whole lot cheaper.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by island911

There is no guarantee of that. Sure, there are "organic" farmers who deliver a better product, at times. But to imply that automation always leads to an inferior product is just wrong.

Who is saying that automation ALWAYS leads to inferior products? I haven't seen that.

You are taking statements to the extreme to try and support your flimsy position. No one is saying that everything should be organic. No one is saying that we should force people to buy certain foods.

What I am saying is that supporting your local farmer is a good thing. Allowing cows to actually move around in a pasture and eat grass is a good thing. Not subsidizing corn to the point that our entire food industry is dependent on the government subsidy is a good thing.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

...

Is it your position that you want the government to continue to control our food supply? How conservative of you...

I do want our govt to encourage a strong stable food supply. This is one place where I diverge from Libertarian positions. ...nothing makes the zombies come out more than when they are hungry.

[Nathans_Dad]

I agree.

My point is that having a strong, stable food supply does not require the corn subsidy which promotes the food choices available on the shelf.

What we have now is not a strong, stable food supply. What we have is a seemingly CHEAP food supply that encourages people to consume high calorie, starch based foods which are proven to lead to obesity, heart disease, hypertension and diabetes...to name a few.

[lane912]

when you go to the super market in march and find white tomatoes that were grown in Chile and shipped here, "ripening" for 4 dollars a pound do you find them appetizing in any way? soon, ten years or so energy prices are predicted to be high enough to make this type of marketing cost prohibitive; it will cost too much to grow or make a product on one side of the earth to be consumed on the other side. everything will be produced for local markets or cost more.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by island911

I do want our govt to encourage a strong stable food supply. This is one place where I diverge from Libertarian positions. ...nothing makes the zombies come out more than when they are hungry.

????

I find that perplexing. You seem pretty conservative.

Government interference in the form of farm subsidies is not only anti-competitive, it also rewards the production of foods that are hurting the American diet. Its utter corruption. Farming states simply dipping into the American slush fund, and handing it over to agribusiness.

[Dottore]

[QUOTE=lane912;5232586 soon, ten years or so energy prices are predicted to be high enough to make this type of marketing cost prohibitive; it will cost too much to grow or make a product on one side of the earth to be consumed on the other side. everything will be produced for local markets or cost more.[/QUOTE]

And that is actually the way it should be.

Some people predicted long ago that prohibitive fuel costs would eventually bring "Big Food" to its knees. And then what happens to your stable food supply?

What happens when the cost of shipping soybeans and corn across the country to feed lots, and the cost of shipping the livestock to slaughterhouses, and distributing the finished product across the US—just becomes too expensive.

And what about those Peruvian strawberries and that New Zealand lamb? How fecking stupid is that? Why would anyone buy a lamb from New Zealand—unless of course they live in New Zealand?

[svandamme]

If Big Food can't look outside the US for money, they'll look inside the US.
Buyer beware, they monopolize anything they can, and once they have control, they will do whatever they can to stay in control...

Just look at the way they are suing small farmers because their crops are "infected" with Monsanto dna due to polination.. And then they break the small farmer for using patented dna... when it was the wind that blew the dna on their fields..
little farms could claim their land was trespassed with the GM crap... but obviously the little farmers can't fight the likes of Monsanto , most of em can't even put down a retainer for a lawyer , let alone duke it out from start to finish without going bankrupt

I find it odd they can patent DNA.. they didn't make the DNA, they copied it.
How can you patent something you copied yourself?

It's one big scam.

[island911]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

????

I find that perplexing. You seem pretty conservative.

Actually, I'm simply a pragmatist with a drive to understand the balance of systems (yeah, an engineer)

Originally Posted by HardDrive

...
Government interference in the form of farm subsidies is not only anti-competitive,....

As a kid, living in Idaho, I saw some pissed-off farmers going on about market manipulation of farm-food prices. Farmer would harvest potatoes, take them to the wholesale market, only to find distributors (who should be buying) dumping last-years potatoes, in an (effective) effort to bring down the price on the current crop.
Point being, there will always be manipulation of markets. But, be clear, paying farmers to grow food (that may not be used) is a safer bet than having another dust-bowl. And, ending subsidies will not make the big corporations stop gaining control. ...try anti-trust if they are too big.

It's strange, we have people getting their panties in a bunch over the smallest subtleties of the range of food we have, and yet they seem to totally miss the enormous importance of having a stable food supply. ...this is not something to take lightly. When Dot sez "And that is actually the way it should be."(locavore) I think; what a spoiled Utopian idiot.

[craigster59]

My Wife has seen the documentary and has been a believer in healthier food for a long time. We belong to a food co op and if you live in So California, you can sign up for one in your area or start one yourself. Abundant Harvest Organics -

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by island911

As a kid, living in Idaho...

Well that explains everything. I feel your pain.

[island911]

I'm also a grad from an Ag school. Oh no!

I have the utmost respect for farmers/ranchers. I take it that you don't. ...unless they're wearing tie-die and selling something grown in the local pea-patch, fertilized by elephant dung.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by island911

When Dot sez "And that is actually the way it should be."(locavore) I think; what a spoiled Utopian idiot.

I'm not sure how putting virtually the country's entire agribusiness into the hands of 5 or 6 large conglomerates promotes a stable food supply. You have hugely long supply and distribution chains that are entirely dependent on the the price of fossil fuel. And the entire house of cards is dependent on subsidies of cheap corn and soybean crapola.

You have the corporate pressures on the top and bottom ends. Nutrition becomes irrelevant. The entire fecking freight train is ultimately driven by "shareholder value".

I mean, do you really not see anything wrong with this picture?

Imagine if things were like France where people eat mostly regionally and seasonally—and agriculture was everywhere. Who has the more stable food supply?

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by island911

I have the utmost respect for farmers/ranchers.

So do I. But Big Food does not, and never has.

[island911]

Of course there are problems with that picture, but like I said "...try anti-trust if they are too big."


My point is ... first, I get that people have the knee-jerk reaction to the big ag-business getting subsidies. But taking away money to grow, does not fix the issue you have with them (monopoly)

[island911]

Originally Posted by Dottore

So do I. But Big Food does not, and never has.

"never"?

anyway, "Big food" has many benefits. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[svandamme]

Just came back from town... got me some saucages, mince meat and authentic pate



This guy noticed, around 2000 , that the salami's and sauceages he makes, wouldn't cure properly.. because the meat he was getting through normal channels, was just not good enough.
To much water, and antibiotics would simply kill the salami's curing process.

So he went ahead and bought his own live stock, hogs and Limousin cows, he has Polish farmers taking care of them till they are ready for slaughter..
Now he controls the whole process rather then the big industrial slaughter houses..


His butcher shop has a reputation for being slightly more expensive...
but also for having the best quality meat...