BATF is coming to visit me! - Page 3

m21sniper · 03-29-2010, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

Reminds me of a device described as a "bang stick" in a Clancy novel I read a while back. The main character made one for upclose use...insert shell then when needed, jab against the bad guy...bang.

You did the right thing, but I would have tried to get a stamp for it just because it belonged to gramps.

No Remorse...great book.

MRM · 05:37 AM

David, I am not at all sure that the BATF people are right that it is an illegal weapon and must be siezed and forfieted. It may be, but I would not rely on their advice for a number of reasons.

First, the BATF are cops; they are not lawyers and they don't really know how to interpret the law any better than you do. They just look at the statutes, regs, and make their best guess. They don't usually interpret statutes because their lawyers issue guidelines that they follw like a recipe - if you see this, do that, that sort of thing. If they need a real legal opinion they ask the US Attorney assigned to them.

Second, if asked, they are going to be extremely conservative in telling you whether something is legal or illegal. If it is illegal in any circumstance, they will tell you that it is forbidden and they will tell you that you have to surrender it. This may be true on one level, but there are exceptions to every rule and there may very well be exceptions to the rule they are citing that would make it legal to possess in certain circumstances. They probably aren't going to take the time to suss out every permutation of the rule and will stop once they hit the general rule that says "no shotguns under _____ inches can be possessed legally."

And finally, the BATF don't represent your interest; they are not your advocate. I'm not suggesting that they are jack booted thugs who can't wait to take your guns. I just mean that on a personal basis they have an interest in uniform enforcement of simple rules and regs. They don't have the same personal interest in finding a way for you to keep the club/gun that you have, so you can't count on them watching out for your interests the way an advocate working for you would.

So if you do want to keep it, ask a lawyer you know to just look into the deal before you give it up and see if there is some way to save it as a special interest, historical item that can be preserved in private hands. It is a nice piece of history. It would be a shame to see it destroyed. Maybe you can negotiate placement in their museum.

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 05:34 AM

Thank you, The best advice yet. I may look into that.

masraum · 03-30-2010, 05:39 AM

Sucks that it looks like you'll be losing it, but then you were going to sell it anyway, so I guess it's not that big a deal to you. I'd have wanted to keep it and just never said anything.

targa911S · 05:48 AM

I never gave it a second thought that it would be such a problem. It was a tear gas dispenser as far as I was concerned. I was trying to put together some cash for a mannlicher style .17 HMR project I'm working on.

vash · vash's Garage

i skip reading this thread. i imagine several "WTF, you called THE MAN?" themed threads...or the ubiquitous, "Govt, should stay out of the private gun closet!"..yada yada yada.

i would take many many pictures of the stash...great stuff. bonus if you get a group photos with the "men in black".

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

i skip reading this thread. i imagine several "WTF, you called THE MAN?" themed threads...or the ubiquitous, "Govt, should stay out of the private gun closet!"..yada yada yada.

i would take many many pictures of the stash...great stuff. bonus if you get a group photos with the "men in black".

Yes I went to bed last night pretty upset with all the "you were pretty stupid for doing that" and They will prosecute you" comments. But it is what it is and I did what I thought was right. To me that's what matters.

Buy the way I heard that the local agent is a woman and pretty hot. I will ask her for a photo just for you guys.

Gotta go I hear black helicopters coming.

Jim Richards · 03-30-2010, 08:01 AM

Yes, they're closing in on your position.

masraum · 03-30-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa911S

Yes I went to bed last night pretty upset with all the "you were pretty stupid for doing that" and They will prosecute you" comments. But it is what it is and I did what I thought was right. To me that's what matters.

Buy the way I heard that the local agent is a woman and pretty hot. I will ask her for a photo just for you guys.

Gotta go I hear black helicopters coming.

If I thought that it was a legal problem, I'd have probably done something too if I'd already made it public (advertised on the Internet). Once it was public info, you'd better get legal or something ugly could happen.

Leland Pate · 03-30-2010, 09:35 AM

Weapons cannot be added to the NFA registry if it wasn't done when it was originally manufactured or during the amnesty period during the 80's.

Basicially, if you have a title II weapon that isn't currently in the registry, there is no legal way to add it at this point. All this is assuming we are talking about Title II weapons that are transferable to individuals. Protected classes ...dealers, manufacturers and government agencies are a whole other story.

Hugh R · 03-30-2010, 10:01 AM

Sorry, missed the part about it being on auction, never mind.

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Sorry, missed the part about it being on auction, never mind.

I assumed you did Hugh. Sorry if I was stern in my reply. I had feeling I had to get through a couple of Merlots.

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 10:50 AM

I just got back from the local shop I do work for occasionally. I ran the whole scene past him and he agreed that I absolutely did the right thing. He also said they will have no beef with me as I volunteered the info and that I had possession of a questionable weapon. Had the auction continued and I sold it over state lines or at all for that matter that would be when the trouble would start.

ZLP · ZLP's Garage

You should also call the IRS and ask for an audit, just to make sure you paid all your taxes this year.

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 10:54 AM

thanks for the intelligent comment Mr. 813 posts.

Now where is that ignore button.

HunterVonWurst · 03-30-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa911S

thanks for the intelligent comment Mr. 813 posts.

LOL. Noob snobbery...

Do not judge me by the color of my skin, but by the content of my character (or something like that).

Whether you agree and/or like it or not, you are now on the BATFE's "little black book list". You should have made an anonymous inquiry about the weapon BEFORE auctioning it.

Best of luck to you.

targa911S · 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterVonWurst

LOL. Noob snobbery...

Do not judge me by the color of my skin, but by the content of my character (or something like that).

Whether you agree and/or like it or not, you are now on the BATFE's "little black book list". You should have made an anonymous inquiry about the weapon BEFORE auctioning it.

Best of luck to you.

hindsight is 20/20. you are right, (Mr 44 posts) :-), of course...really. But there is no going back. Hopefully they have me in the book as what I am, an honest guy trying to do the right thing.

Kinda hard these days to be anonymous in the electronic age we live in. If I call they have my number, a monkey could find out who and where I am from there.

berettafan · 03-30-2010, 11:02 AM

If you should have occassion to meet anyone from ATF please ask them two questions (and record the answers):

1-How does it feel to sell out for a paycheck?

2-Who's bringing the chips?

btw, would def. not have tried to sell such an item without getting absolute clearance on legality from THE MAN either. 'twas the right thing.

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 11:06 AM

That should put me in solid with them I'm sure.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Sorry, but complying with BS gun laws is not necessarily doing the right thing. I understand your position, but I would seriously lawyer up. People "trying to do the right thing" are BATF's main target. Going after the real bad guys is serious work. You're just low-hanging fruit.

Those goons had a sting/bait ad on Backpage in Phoenix last week, trying to sell a full auto, short-barrel AK, making no mention of paperwork or transfer requirements. Someone called it out on a local gun BBS and posted a link. I'm sure they were flooded with insulting responses and they soon pulled the ad.

Their tactics are truly insulting to one's intelligence and prove they're only trying to nail ignorant people, not the real criminals. They troll the local gun shows, posing as totally ignorant buyers from CA, wanting to buy a handgun or what not or even pose as an out-of-state seller, trying to sell Grandpa's old this or that. They always target elderly people at gun shows.

I've been to their office in Phoenix and they have paintings on their walls portraying their agents (in full ninja gear) climbing into house windows and doing battle ala Waco. I am not joking. They glorify it. It reminded me of when I was in an East German police station in the '80's and saw a painting there glorifying the Berlin Wall.