BATF is coming to visit me! - Page 5

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-30-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tishabet

What's to second guess here?

Everyone knows better here.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-30-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa911S

COOL!! We will go directly to the source so you can enjoy it in it's true environment.

You have my address right? I

think so. will connect and plan when we get closer. I'm leaving Hershey, going to visit you and then on to MN.

Dueller · 03:21 PM

I spoke to an ATF agent locally that I was referred to by another atty. Although I disagree with him to a certain extent he suggested (off the record) that since it is not rifled and the projectile (tg cannister) would not be readily available nor life threatening and it likely was not designed to shoot anything but a blank 12 ga shell it possibly would not come under NFA regulation. I personally think it does since it conceivably could fire a 12 ga shell with a projectile of shots or slugs (even though I wouldn't want to

). Agent and I discussed this but he said it would essentially need to have a 12 ga bore the entire length to truly come under NFA.

In any event, in order to keep it you would pay a $5 registartion fee, undergo background check and could be legally licensed to keep it or subsequently sell...not $200 since you did not manufacture it. The agent and I agree on this. Assuming you have no felonies you'll have no problems keeping it if you want it especially in light of its history.

He is getting me a definitive opinion and references from the ATF division in DC in charge of this for me to pass on to let you know what to say to agents.

He also said the liklihood of you being in trouble had you sold it was essentially nil.

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 04:09 PM

Ya know Jim, you are really one of the best guys on this board. I cannot even begin to tell you how much I appreciate your finding all this out for me. In all honesty I'm a bit scared by all this. I don't want this to ruin my hobby as a gun collector and to say the least a loss of liberties. Thank you so much. My wife and I have discussed this and if possible feel I should keep it now after all this rather than see it destroyed. I'm truely sorry I ever put it up for sale.

on2wheels52 · on2wheels52's Garage

"it likely was not designed to shoot anything but a blank 12 ga shell"

I hadn't totally considered that as a possibility. Could it be taken more on the lines as a flare gun?
Should the agent insist it IS a shotgun, would it be rude to ask Mr. (or MS.) agent if they're willing to personally fire off a few rounds from said shotgun (while you're standing some distance away) ?
Jim

Leland Pate · 03-30-2010, 04:59 PM

Ahhhhh... welcome to the wonderful world of American gun laws...

Doesn't it just make you swell with pride to reflect on the amount of fear you have experienced over trying to do the right thing?

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 05:02 PM

if this were the only firearm I had I wouldn't care but I have wayy too much to lose.

vash · vash's Garage

wait..back this damn bus up!

i seem to remember some safety flare pistols being 12 ga..cant you simply exchange a flare for a real shotgun shell?

ODDJOB UNO · ODDJOB UNO's Garage

man dont sweat this juan IOTA! you did right. BATF cant do a damn thing.

knowing class 3 mfgs./sellers/owners etc. they all say the same damn thing. follow the rules and everythang is OTAY.

i think yer gonna be surprised at how well your going to be treated and how professional.

its not like you have a record. its not like your david koresh or a cartel member.

my class 3 friends dont have (1) problem with BATF w/exception of keeping current correct paperwork. ie. cross the "T" and dot the "I"'s.

and believe me here................there are so many class 3's here, it will make yer head SPIN.

the laws are plain and simple. its not up to an interpetation, its a law. and if ya didnt break the law in any way shape or form, then ya gots yer panties in a twist over NOTHING!

anyjuan can come and look at mine any time any place. i have read the laws,know the laws,therefore i have NOT broken any laws. now IGNORANCE of the laws is an entirely different subject, but can apply some times in different circumstances.

there are a bunch of pyscho morons here that suddenly got you afeared of your actions for NO DAMN REASON. and the only action you have committed is the RIGHT ACTION by calling BATF.

if i were a betting man...........this ATF agent you meet with is gonna laugh and let ya keep it. or at the worst register it so in the future you have no problems selling it if you choose to do so.

better being SMART and SAFE and LEGAL than being very very very SORRY!

my .0000002 centavos worth.

keep us posted. crap its not like this thang is a machine gun or a live ICBM!

vash · vash's Garage

nevermind..googled it. modern flare guns are plastic. i wouldnt shoot a shotgun shell with one. maybe i should email mythbusters....

ODDJOB UNO · ODDJOB UNO's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

wait..back this damn bus up!

i seem to remember some safety flare pistols being 12 ga..cant you simply exchange a flare for a real shotgun shell?

yes in certain quality flare guns you can use a live real 12 gauge round and fire it. HK flare guns come to mind if ya have the 12 gauge aluminum adaptor.

the plastic barrel marine(orange) from OLIN will not stay together under a 12ga real live round SAMMI pressures. ie. SUICIDE / MEGA OUCH when plastic nylon barrel explodes. not a GOOD THANG TO DO!

MRM · 05:41 PM

David, let's back up and review. We have learned some important lessons here. To wit:

1) The only thing you did wrong was asking the BATF for their opinion after putting the non-gun up for sale. If you had thought about it in advance, you could have gotten the legalities squared away before putting it up for sale; but . . .

2) Once putting it up for sale, you absolutely did the right thing by contacting the law enforcement agency responsible for regulating the non-gun to make sure you were complying with the law. It would have been better if you had an advocate make the calls on your behalf, but you protected yourself from any possible criminal charges and ongoing hassles by the Gubmint by contacting the feds first;

3) For a real legal opinion, don't count on the enforcement agency - you need an advocate in your corner who can advise you; and

4) FDR initiated the Fair Deal, Truman had the Square Deal, according to Biden health care reform is a Big F'ing Deal. But the PPOT board knows that Jim (Dueller) is the Real F'ing Deal;

When Shawn visits, make him buy all the food and alcohol you can consume in a single sitting, I will pay him back by doing the same to him if he ever returns to Minnesota.

targa911S · 03-30-2010, 06:06 PM

The voices of reason have spoken and I have listened. I will rest much better tonight . Thanks to all for your friendship and excellent advice.

ZLP · ZLP's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa911S

Well grasshopper, I joined the gang here in 2002 that averages out to about 2.36 posts per day. Plus I'm retired. Got all the time in the world. Now get back to yer cubical before your supervisor catches you.

Wow burn lol. Congrats for being here a year longer than me. No cubical here

ZLP · ZLP's Garage

Back to topic that club probably couldn't shoot a regular 12ga shell because of the pressures involved. A run of the mill flare gun shoots 12ga too, those are not regulated by the ATF either.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZLP

Congrats for being here a year longer than me.

Noobs.

targa911S · 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZLP

Wow burn lol. Congrats for being here a year longer than me. No cubical here

.35 posts per day. You're a regular fountain of wisdom aren't you.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa911S

Your a regular fountain of wisdom aren't you.

You see the irony here, don't you?

targa911S · 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZLP

Back to topic that club probably couldn't shoot a regular 12ga shell because of the pressures involved. A run of the mill flare gun shoots 12ga too, those are not regulated by the ATF either.

Well I'm not too sure of that. The barrel wall thickness is about 1/4", and it's steel not aluminum. It's also encased in Bakelite so I believe it's possible that it could survive a low pressure shell. Keep in mind that when this was made in the 30's, shell pressures were low, around 7,000 psi. Modern 12 ga ammo is around 21,000 psi. So in theory in it's day it would have been possible to shoot a 12 ga. round from it. Would I?? hell no! At the least it would break your wrist.

Are we friends now?

ODDJOB UNO · ODDJOB UNO's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa911S

.35 posts per day. Your a regular fountain of wisdom aren't you.

that made my night. thanks. LMFAO!