road rage murder

[wcc]

WOW that is crazy! Sorry to hear it is so close to home. I always tell my wife not to honk and carry on unless it's really necessary and to pick your fights. But she's Italian so it doesn't sink in...

Now this is gun control.... Being able to return fire after being shot in the face.

Would-be carjacker shot dead by victim at Detroit gas station | lansingstatejournal.com | Lansing State Journal

[sc_rufctr]

It's interesting how this has become a discussion about gun control.

The fact is no matter what laws you pass or change bad people will always find a way to harm others.
Including obtaining guns illegally. We have very tight gun control laws down here and this has made no difference to the availability of guns to crooks. If anything they are now more available than ever before.
For instance and old M16 is about $600 on the black market... 9mm pistol, about $300. You name it, you can get it.

Recently a local biker was caught with a Barret 50 caliber rifle... (bolt action non Mil version) That gun was never sold legally in Aus and yet somehow the crooks have no problems getting them

The issue here is what caused the rage. If merely honking at someone enrages them enough to want to kill you then something is clearly wrong with that individual.
That's what the law and the police should focus on.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Superman

I'm guessing you were not armed at the time? Quite frankly, while I believe in the principle of avoiding danger whenever possible, if a lifted pickup truck driver were as enraged and bent on killing me on a motorcycle as this guy sounds, and if I were armed, I would be tempted to stop, hop a jersey barrier and put my hand on a stock.

I certainly was armed. I had not, however, run out of other options. It was easier for me to escape him than it would have been to shoot him. The latter really is the very last option.

If I were on a jury trying a guy in my position who had stopped to confront and shoot the other guy, I would find it damn near impossible to let him off on a "self defense" defense. The only time "self defense" becomes a viable defense is when the other guy has forced your hand and has left you with no options.

In this case, the only reason I would have stopped is because I let my own anger overcome my common sense. Believe me, I thought about it, but for all of the wrong reasons.

Come to think of it, though, if it had come down to a confrontation, I bet I could have scared him off with my Harley face...

[Scuba Steve]

I am imagining the gun vs. no gun argument being decided once and for all by this thread....

I'm imagining this thread going to PARF in no time.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I certainly was armed. I had not, however, run out of other options. It was easier for me to escape him than it would have been to shoot him. The latter really is the very last option.

If I were on a jury trying a guy in my position who had stopped to confront and shoot the other guy, I would find it damn near impossible to let him off on a "self defense" defense. The only time "self defense" becomes a viable defense is when the other guy has forced your hand and has left you with no options.

In this case, the only reason I would have stopped is because I let my own anger overcome my common sense. Believe me, I thought about it, but for all of the wrong reasons.

Come to think of it, though, if it had come down to a confrontation, I bet I could have scared him off with my Harley face...

Having just taken my NV CCW class in Vegas this week, it's fresh in my mind. Best advice the instructor had was, "If you have any choice at all, don't take the shot." Gunplay breaking out in a road rage incident is a matter of choice. I will never be the first to make that choice. We do have legal defensive display in AZ. But you'd better bet you'll have some 'splainin' to do if you're the first one to unholster a gun.

[vash]

i was almost killed on my motorcycle by a rager. he cut me off, and i pulled up next to him and flipped him off. he immediately swerved into me. i had only one hand on the bars and i dont know how i managed to avoid him. my girlfriend was on the back (now my wife). if i had a gun on me i would have followed him and put one between his eyes. and gone to prison. i was that mad. i learned right there and then, to give a rat's arse about anyone elses attitude when i comes to driving. someone cuts me off, i back off. someone tailgates me, i pull aside. i dont even look. i have no feelings pro or con about someone. total indifference.

whatever.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by vash

i was almost killed on my motorcycle by a rager. he cut me off, and i pulled up next to him and flipped him off. he immediately swerved into me. i had only one hand on the bars and i dont know how i managed to avoid him. my girlfriend was on the back (now my wife). if i had a gun on me i would have followed him and put one between his eyes. and gone to prison. i was that mad. i learned right there and then, to give a rat's arse about anyone elses attitude when i comes to driving. someone cuts me off, i back off. someone tailgates me, i pull aside. i dont even look. i have no feelings pro or con about someone. total indifference.

whatever.

If he was trying to kill you, then you'd have been justified in killing him only if it was to prevent your own death or grave bodily injury. That's not hard to prove in a bike vs. car situation. However, chasing after him would get you an instant conviction in court (even in AZ) if it ended in someone getting hurt. The advantage a bike has is that it can outrun any car and I'd rather run than shoot, if it's possible.

I was actually hit on the hwy. at speed on my motorcycle and managed to not go down. I was far more scared than I was angry. Anger came later. Shooting the absentminded teenage girl for texting on her Blackberry, which caused her to drift into my lane would not have done any good for either of us.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by vash

i learned right there and then, to give a rat's arse about anyone elses attitude when i comes to driving. someone cuts me off, i back off. someone tailgates me, i pull aside. i dont even look. i have no feelings pro or con about someone. total indifference.

whatever.

Those are words of wisdom. Awfully hard to put in practice for most people, unfortunately.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I am imagining the gun vs. no gun argument being decided once and for all by this thread....

Originally Posted by Scuba Steve

I'm imagining this thread going to PARF in no time.

I am imagining your imagining happening before my imagining.