Subaru Outback

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

This car was a POS, and a lemon. I think the quality may have improved since, but I can never buy another Subaru again or recommend them to anyone.

To bring it back to neutral.... my 2003 with 150,000 miles WRX has survived my stupidity with zero problems

[Paul K]

Too bad the twin turbos aren't available Stateside.

Might check the transfer case issues on the pre-98's. Ex gf had one & it needed a $2k 'fix'.

No, that gf didn't look like the 'gal' in the Forester ad!

[Normy]

Originally Posted by Laneco

One thing to honestly consider, Normy, is - are you in the market for a $2,700 car or a $6,000 car?

That's a lot of difference in this price range. $2,700 generally buys you a get-you-by transportation along with it's issues. $6K can buy a pretty decent car. If you can afford $6K, quit looking at $2,700 $hitters.

angela

Yeah, that's a good question. I have a '97 Jetta GLX in Memphis right now, and this thing has been a friggin nightmare since day one! I paid $3300 for it, and as soon as I got it to Memphis, it [within the first month] needed to be towed THREE times and cost me about $2200 in repairs. I've had it four years now, and in between I had the coil pack fail [cheap fix], but then the steering rack finally died completely and last summer I had to spend $500 to replace it. Then in 100 degree heat the air conditioner failed, along with one of the two remaining power windows that worked. I was on the edge with this car at the time, and every time I drive it I'm worried about getting to work. This company gets upset real quick if you don't make it to work, so recently when the drivers door lock failed, and then the air bag light came on, I just said enough is enough. I like the car- it's fun as hell to drive, and the VR6 engine makes it genuinely quick, but it is literally falling apart.

I've heard that Subaru's are dirt-ass reliable, so when I saw a note on a bulletin board offering the '97 for sale for $2700, I started doing research and came up with a budget of $4500 to replace the Jetta. The more expensive '01 car, while out of the price range...is still affordable and it is low mileage, so I wonder if I can keep it for 10 years. My car up there sees about 2500 miles per year, so it seems like it might be a better idea than the '97 with a rebuilt engine and a fresh timing belt. The '01 uses a timing chain, solving that problem. But is it going to need a head gasket[s] in 10,000 miles? If so, then the cheaper car might make more sense.

As to AWD, it isn't necessary up there, but since Subaru's come that way, it can't hurt. They do get small snow falls, and occasionally slippery roads.

Thanx!

N

[RWebb]

get the cheap one & see how you like it - in a big city you can always buy another with the 6 cyl.

[NutmegCarrera]

I'm almost afraid to chime in after all of the crap subarus are taking here today, but I'm on my 3rd.
We started with a '98 outback, which my wife used working as a visiting nurse. Had to go all over backroads bumf@k Wisconsin in all sorts of weather. Not many people needing a visiting nurse know how to blow snow.

In any case, we kept that until '06, with 150k on the odometer. No rust, no leaks, and we had done regular oil changes, trans fluid, coolant and the timing belt. Brakes once (which are pretty easy on that car), and a couple of sets of tires. Great car. Sold it for $5k to a guy that works with me, and his wife has been happy with it ever since.

Our second (my car) replaced an Acura RDX. Loved the interior of the RDX, but was crap for utility value. The 08 subaru outback was a good car. However, the back seat really wasnt big enough for the kids (in booster seats, now).

Third is an '11 Outback. No steering wheel shake issues for me. I have under 5K miles on it, but think it's a pretty darned nice vehicle. Plan on keeping this one for a while. Have installed a larger rear sway bar, which helps quite a bit. 19mm instead of 15mm.

I would agree with earlier poster's comments about head gaskets on the DOHC cars. Never had an issue myself, but would hate to deal with that kind of stuff.

I have kept a Yakima roof rack on all of ours, but the '11 is kind of a PITA. Has "factory" accessories and a goofy crossbar design. Waiting for the Yakima "Landing pad 12" to come out so I can get sufficient crossbar spread to carry a canoe.

Yes, they are somewhat gutless - esp with an automatic. However, the CVT in the 2010 and 2011 is much nicer to live with. (I have the 4 cyl w/CVT).

Good luck.

[Normy]

Originally Posted by NutmegCarrera

I'm almost afraid to chime in after all of the crap subarus are taking here today, but I'm on my 3rd.
We started with a '98 outback, which my wife used working as a visiting nurse. Had to go all over backroads bumf@k Wisconsin in all sorts of weather. Not many people needing a visiting nurse know how to blow snow.

In any case, we kept that until '06, with 150k on the odometer. No rust, no leaks, and we had done regular oil changes, trans fluid, coolant and the timing belt. Brakes once (which are pretty easy on that car), and a couple of sets of tires. Great car. Sold it for $5k to a guy that works with me, and his wife has been happy with it ever since.

Our second (my car) replaced an Acura RDX. Loved the interior of the RDX, but was crap for utility value. The 08 subaru outback was a good car. However, the back seat really wasnt big enough for the kids (in booster seats, now).

Third is an '11 Outback. No steering wheel shake issues for me. I have under 5K miles on it, but think it's a pretty darned nice vehicle. Plan on keeping this one for a while. Have installed a larger rear sway bar, which helps quite a bit. 19mm instead of 15mm.

I would agree with earlier poster's comments about head gaskets on the DOHC cars. Never had an issue myself, but would hate to deal with that kind of stuff.

I have kept a Yakima roof rack on all of ours, but the '11 is kind of a PITA. Has "factory" accessories and a goofy crossbar design. Waiting for the Yakima "Landing pad 12" to come out so I can get sufficient crossbar spread to carry a canoe.

Yes, they are somewhat gutless - esp with an automatic. However, the CVT in the 2010 and 2011 is much nicer to live with. (I have the 4 cyl w/CVT).

Good luck.

One of the two I'm looking at has the 6 cylinder engine; do you know if these have head-gasket issues as well?

Thanx!

N

[Jeff Alton]

We are talking about used cars here, one for 6K and one for under 3K?? And you are complaining about your VW that cost you next to nothing and needed repairs???

Roll the dice and take your chances, you are likely buying a worn out car that has outlived its designed life cycle........ but you are paying about the same amount as the tax on a new one would be so....

Cheers

[J1NX3D]

Originally Posted by kaisen

I know a lot about these cars. I've bought, repaired, and sold a half dozen last year. I utilize an independent Subaru specialist who is highly regarded.

you wouldn't happen to know if these sway bars from a '95 sti would fit a 2000 imprezza 1.5L FWD?

[Normy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

We are talking about used cars here, one for 6K and one for under 3K?? And you are complaining about your VW that cost you next to nothing and needed repairs???

Roll the dice and take your chances, you are likely buying a worn out car that has outlived its designed life cycle........ but you are paying about the same amount as the tax on a new one would be so....

Cheers

All good points. That Jetta, in the end after all the repairs, has cost me over $5500, and has seen about 11,000 miles in four years. Things keep breaking left and right- I'm just afraid it will strand me on the highway at this rate. VW's are great cars- for about the first 7 years. After that, they go downhill quickly, especially the 3rd generation cars.

It seems like the Subaru's, while not perfect, have a better rep. This car will sit outside in an airport parking lot, attacked by dirt and soot, and often times I will go out to the lot once per month just to start it up and charge the battery, so it won't see much use. Placing a new car in these conditions would be a waste of money.

Thanx!

N

[Rot 911]

Normy, you are in Memphis not Minneapolis. Get a used Honda with M&S tires. Put a new battery in it, change the oil and drive it.

[Paul_Heery]

Originally Posted by Normy

One of the two I'm looking at has the 6 cylinder engine; do you know if these have head-gasket issues as well?

Thanx!

N

The 6 cylinder engine is a completely different animal. It is a very solid platform. It does not have the history of head gasket problems that plagued the 4 cylinder engines. It also uses a timing chain, not a belt. So, you really don't need to worry about replacement.

The engine gives you more horsepower and noticeable pep than the 4cyl (212 v 165). But, it is still not a sports car.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Paul_Heery

The 6 cylinder engine is a completely different animal. It is a very solid platform. It does not have the history of head gasket problems that plagued the 4 cylinder engines. It also uses a timing chain, not a belt. So, you really don't need to worry about replacement.

The engine gives you more horsepower and noticeable pep than the 4cyl (212 v 165). But, it is still not a sports car.

And it makes a familiar flat six throb.... Oh, but Normy wouldn't know

[scotricker]

I just want to buy a Brat. Not a Baja, a real Brat. coolest truck ever. I'll find one.

[Normy]

Originally Posted by Paul_Heery

The 6 cylinder engine is a completely different animal. It is a very solid platform. It does not have the history of head gasket problems that plagued the 4 cylinder engines. It also uses a timing chain, not a belt. So, you really don't need to worry about replacement.

The engine gives you more horsepower and noticeable pep than the 4cyl (212 v 165). But, it is still not a sports car.

Yeah, you said it in that last part: This is not a sports car! I drove the '01 today, and was surprised how much it drove like a minivan. It feels like a much larger car.

It's a little beat up, and the A/C doesn't work; I may try to low-ball this guy on Monday, see if I can pick it up on the cheap.

Thanx!

N

[Normy]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

This will be the 2nd time I've felt compelled to chime in on a PPOT subaru legacy thread.

Once upon a time when I lived in VT, I bought a '96 (or '97, can't remember now) outback brand spankin' new. Subaru ownership is almost state law up there. This car was a POS, and a lemon. I think the quality may have improved since, but I can never buy another Subaru again or recommend them to anyone.

Within the first 600mi of ownership, a critical bolt in the front suspension/steering linkages fell out. Luckily I wasn't hammering through the twisties between my home and workplace, or else I could have easily been killed. In the 2 years (35k mi) I owned the car, it ate through 3 sets of brake rotors (they would warp badly). Yes VT has hills, but I don't ride brakes, and it was a 5 speed, so I used engine braking mostly going down those hills. The quality of the interior was very poor, especially when compared to Toyota or Honda. Back in the day, the Outback model was 10k more than the stripped down "Brighton" version. For 10k you got 16" alloys, foglamps, a couple inches extra ground clearance, and a 1 micron thin layer of "luxury" applied to the interior, which began to wear away the moment the car is driven off the dealer's lot.

My personal policy is to NEVER "turn" a brake disk.

I'm serious- this is the biggest scam in automobiledom. They use a form of lathe to thin your brake disks down a tiny amount, the reason being that they want to make it "straight", and you need this to seat your pads correctly. Bullscheize! I've done my own brake jobs the past 12 years, and I've only used NEW disks on my 928 and my '97 Ford Aerostar, and both stopped just fine without being "turned"! My theory is that if you change your pads, just do the disks as well- they might cost $20 each. But you will NEVER have the wobble upon light braking like you do with a thinned brake disk. You see, the manufacturers make the disks as thin and light [unsprung weight...] as possible, but if you "turn" that disk, it is now TOO thin and it will WARP. That's when you get the wobble upon brake application.

N!

[TimT]

Nitwit.

My personal policy is to NEVER "turn" a brake disk

Fine toss away perfectly good parts..

I'm serious- this is the biggest scam in automobiledom. They use a form of lathe to thin your brake disks down a tiny amount, the reason being that they want to make it "straight"

So if the disk is machined down a "tiny" amount and is still within spec, that would be a bad thing?

You can find the wear limits for a brake disc cast or stamped on it somewhere...

Blanchard grinding is a preferred way to refinish disks..

[cgarr]

Maybe the scam is you can get rotors from China for less than you can turn an original set to new spec. I do my best to avoid crap from china..

And its called a brake lathe...

[Laneco]

Normy?

I was thinking about your situation while I was riding my bike yesterday. Funny how random ideas come to me when I'm riding.

Here's my idea. Add up the cost of the car you have, the cost of the repairs, the depreciation for the car, registration, insurance, and whatever it costs to store it (which probably isn't free). That should tell you how much you've spent altogether.

As it's in Memphis, you're using it intermittently. Compare those costs to the cost of renting a car each time you go to Memphis. Even if you rent from the airport lots which would be HUGELY convenient for you, it may be LESS MONEY total than what you've already spent. Plus it would be absolutely zero maintenance and all the associated hassles. All you pay for is the rental cost, which is a controlled cost - no $3,000 transmission surprises, no $1,500 head gasket suprises, etc., plus gasoline.

Might prove absolutely viable.

angela

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by TimT

Nitwit.



Fine toss away perfectly good parts..



So if the disk is machined down a "tiny" amount and is still within spec, that would be a bad thing?

You can find the wear limits for a brake disc cast or stamped on it somewhere...

Blanchard grinding is a preferred way to refinish disks..

I usually replace them too.

Brake lathes are $5-10K new. My local shop paid $14K for their on-car lathe.
So.... most shops charge $15-20 to turn each rotor, and you can see why.

Yes, you can buy good quality rotors for $20 (or less) from o.e. suppliers (even Brembo). Of course we're talking about pedestrian passenger cars, not track toys or big trucks. I buy Bendix Global rotors for a Subaru Legacy/Outback for $18 front and $19 rear.

So rather than waiting for rotors to be turned, it's much faster to replace them. And for roughly $5 more, why not. Then it's brand new, no corrosion, under warranty. Would you rather have the car taking up a hoist for a couple hours?

If the arguement isn't about removing material, it might be about time and efficiency. Bigger, more expensive rotors (i.e. Porsche or F350) may change that relationship. YMMV.

[sammyg2]

And I change my oil every 3000 miles ....