Head Shots in the NHL

[Por_sha911]

Back at the beginning of the new season, I asked what anyone thought of the the new rules. The response I got was "New rules? Huh? You mean post-lock-out? Or 2010-11 season specific? There are very few changes this year. Officially, anyhow." No one seemed to feel that the new head shot rule was of any major consequence...no biggie deal. I have to confess that it was a big deal to me because I felt that the cheap shot that Cooke took on Savard back in March 2010 cost the Bruins a cup last year. Even though at that time the hit was "legal", everyone in the league knew it was a dirty cheap shot. Savard was their best scorer and feed man. After he got knocked out, they went into a scoring slump (expecially with power plays). To this day he hasn't been the same player he was. I wonder if he ever will be again. OK, now that my rant is over, lets move on

Fast forward to this month. Sid (the golden boy) Crosby gets a hard shot (ruled legal by the NHL even with the new rules) and another soft hit the next game. He realizes he has a concussion and starts whining about it. He publicly questions why the hits weren't ruled illegal (even though every NHL announcer or analyst I've heard says they were hard but clean). The media is falling over themselves to talk with him about it:


So, where was Sidney when his team-mate Matt Cooke disrespected the game and ruined the season for the Bruins (and possibly the career of Savard) with a vicious dirty hit?

I propose that the league needs to rule that when a head shot is deemed illegal and deliberate that the offending player should be suspended without pay until the injured player is able to return. Now someone may question if this is "wussification" of the NHL. I say that it is not since even back in the rough days of the 70's, the players had a code that they would follow. Certain things were off limits. Even today, some of these unwritten codes exist. You'll notice that many players will fight only if both players take their gloves off. Also, once one player falls to the ice the fight is over.

Comments? Do you think the two shots Crosby got were legal? Do you think the head shot rule is tough enough?

[rattlsnak]

got a link to the hits? everyone knows Cooke is an A$$, which is why the video is great:
YouTube - Matt Cooke vs. Evander Kane
(especially since I was there and saw it in ATL)

[Brian 162]

I would have thought there would be a hands off policy hitting Crosby just like there was with Gretzky.
Having a player suspended for injuring another player should have been applied when Todd Bertuzzi finished Steve Moores career.

[wcc]

I read somewhere else that Stuart got his jaw broken in two places from this hit. As a father of a very young (7yo) hockey player I really hope by the time he gets there he is wearing a full face helmet. College Hockey all wear full face cages FWIW.

Kostopoulos suspended for six games
Sunday, 01.09.2011 / 8:46 PM / News
NHL.com
Calgary Flames forward Tom Kostopoulos has been suspended for six games and will forfeit $29,569.92 in salary for delivering a blow to the head of Red Wings defenseman Brad Stuart on January 7, the National Hockey League announced today.

"A number of factors were considered in reaching this decision," said Colin Campbell, the NHL's senior executive vice president of hockey operations. "Kostopoulos delivered a blow to the head of an unsuspecting and vulnerable player. As well, he targeted the head of his opponent and, while the hit was not from the blindside, the head was the principle point of contact. The fact that Brad Stuart was not in possession of the puck when the blow was delivered and the serious nature of the player's injury were also considered in my decision."

Kostopoulos’ fine is based on his average annual salary and is calculated under the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The money goes to the Players’ Emergency Assistance Fund.

The incident occurred at 10:07 of the third period. He was assessed a minor penalty for roughing on the play.

Kostopoulos will miss games Jan. 11 at Carolina, Jan. 14 at Ottawa, Jan. 15 at Toronto, Jan. 17 at Montreal, Jan. 19 against Minnesota and Jan. 21 against Dallas. He is eligible to return Jan. 22 at Vancouver

Here's my boy on the right....


Second time he's filling in for the goalie...

[flatbutt]

Cindy is the biggest candy azz in the league. I can't stand the beotch. But the head shots must stop. The players are bigger and stronger than ever and can do alot of damage moving at 10 miles per hour or more.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

Cindy is the biggest candy azz in the league. I can't stand the beotch. But the head shots must stop. The players are bigger and stronger than ever and can do alot of damage moving at 10 miles per hour or more.

Yeah and as an owner you'd turn down a trade for him.
And what fan are you, the Devils???? They damn near ruined hockey with their trap.

[Vonzipper]

Get rid of the Instigator rule, Nancy boy's like Crosby may have to pay the piper if they start something after the whistle

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Vonzipper

Get rid of the Instigator rule, Nancy boy's like Crosby may have to pay the piper if they start something after the whistle

Another...

[89911]

Stanley Cup and Gold medal winner, leads the NHL is about every category this year (Where's the Ovechkin fans lately?) Solid citizen and the hardest working player in hockey. Never amuses me more then to hear the idiotic complaints about him (Whining, whining?? really, you can't come up something better then that over the last 5 years?) Sure you hate him, unless he played on your team. Your up in Boston, look how they treat Brady now. Maybe he is the source of preferential treatment in sports today.

[Vonzipper]

I'm just fed up with the league and it's entirety revolving around Crosby, the rules are different for him

Guy's like cooke would have had his a$$ kicked if there wasn't an instigator rule

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Vonzipper

I'm just fed up with the league and it's entirety revolving around Crosby, the rules are different for him

Apparently you watch the game with blinders on. The hit, (in the Winter Classic), which concussed Sid was a CHEAP shot in which a penalty wasn't even called.

As far as different rules go, if Brady would have had his nose broken like Ben there would have been ANOTHER new rule. Tommy gets a hangnail and there's a 15 yard penalty.
I've changed the name from Roughing the Quarterback to Roughing the Brady.

Even the announcers say it without saying it. "Ben is so big and strong and hard to take down that he doesn't get the calls". In other words if you're a sissyboy you get roughing calls.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Vonzipper

Get rid of the Instigator rule, Nancy boy's like Crosby may have to pay the piper if they start something after the whistle

There was no instigator rule when Gretzky played and the result was the opposite of what you imply. The instigator rule allowed thugs to ride shot-gun for the stars. Wayne never fought (well just once). For the Crosby haters, the league markets him, that's not his fault. He is the best player in the league by a wide margin now, statistically on par with the greatest of all time. I find it laughable that he is hated for intensity and using every tool he has to stay at the top.

The trouble with head shots is defining them. When a 6'4" player hits a 5'8" player with a shoulder it is not the same as two players of the same height colliding. You can't simply call a shoulder to the head a 'head shot'. If you do then you redefine the game entirely, open ice hits will disappear. Now the expectation is for the hitter to stay low enough that he doesn't allow his shoulder to hit the opponents chin. Or for a 260 lb player to hit a 180 lb player hard, but no so hard he gets a concussion. Letting up on a check isn't the way these guys made the NHL, just the opposite.

For most people their view is shaped by the media, we see a hit, we see an injury and it appears that there was clearly a head shot. The problem with this viewpoint is that we see hits in isolation and only when an injury results. There are a lot of similar hits that don't result in penalties, they are ignored.

And let's look at equipment. It used to be felt and leather (yea, I'm old). About twenty years ago it started to morph into football shoulder pads and hard plastic elbow pads. To the guy on the receiving end that's a big difference, probably getting up off the ice or not.

The players who have been concussed have likely changed their helmets to an improved model, why do they wait to get hurt before doing this? I knew an NHL player who took padding out of his helmet to make it more comfortable. Are the players doing all they can to minimize their injuries? No.

It's not a lot better in the NFL, although they do appear to be more serious about head shots. Players and that league are still at odds about what is ' a good football hit' . Hockey is the same, except faster with more split second decisions. It will be a long painful process, it always is with the NHL. Incompetence tends to cause poor results.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I propose that the league needs to rule that when a head shot is deemed illegal and deliberate that the offending player should be suspended without pay until the injured player is able to return.

This would be an immediate and catastrophic failure. The issue is that it allows teams to control the suspension, who would judge when a player is able to return?

Suppose Crosby were to hit Carcillo with an open ice shoulder to the head. Let's say the hit would be two games under today's rules. Carcillo is hurt, maybe concussed. Under this scenario the Flyers would NEVER let Carcillo play again, thus ensuring that their rival lost their best player for a long long time.

Think that scenario is too unlikely? Star players don't hit like that? Check Joe Thorton's suspension about two months ago as he stepped out of the penalty box....

Why is this such a big problem for 'fans' but not the players? Do you see the NHLPA taking an active role? Where are the owners? The best players in the league are getting hurt and they are silent.

Let's say you work in company with 1,000 employees. Every year 25-40 of them get a concussions on the job, causing them to miss weeks, months, or maybe a years work. Would the employees accept this as 'business as usual'?

There's a problem here, and usual it's the dopes that own the teams and the commissioner who are at fault.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

...... 10 miles per hour or more.

A good skating pro can reach speeds of 25 mph for short periods of time.
Deliberate head shots deserve a penalty. Perhaps intent to injure with appropriate suspensions.
There will always be accidental contact that will result in what appears to be a head shot. When you are surprised by an immediate collision on the ice (if you see it coming) your immediate reaction is to bring up your arms to protect your head.
To spectators it would look like a deliberate head shot to the guy receiving the elbow (the guy that didn't see the collision coming).
Removing the instigator rule would allow the players to self police this type of disrespect to their fellow players.
It would also slow down the game to a degree by allowing more of the enforcer type of players back into the game.
Cindy should stop whining.....

[Taz's Master]

The NHL just needs to hire Roger Goodell.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by billybek

Cindy should stop whining.....

Geez, he's Canadian, the best player in the world AND won you the Olympic gold medal. And you hate on him? Odd to me.

Did you get your cap?

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

The trouble with head shots is defining them. When a 6'4" player hits a 5'8" player with a shoulder it is not the same as two players of the same height colliding. You can't simply call a shoulder to the head a head shot. If you do then you redefine the game entirely, open ice hits will disappear. Now the expectation is for the hitter to stay low enough that he doesn't allow his shoulder to hit the opponents chin. Or for a 260 lb player to hit a 180 lb player hard, but no so hard he gets a concussion. Letting up on a check isn't the way these guys made the NHL, just the opposite.

Not really. First and foremost, blind-side hits like Cooke on Savard or Kostopolous on Stuart. These were easily recognizable as intentional and malicious. Plus, we have high speed high def cameras. They can see what's where the player is looking, how they are moving...

Back in the day, players had respect for the Gretskys. Sure they did stuff but, not like this. Back then, each team had a goon/enforcer to ensure that the best players were protected. The game was slower too so less momentum meant less damage. Also, if you keep your stick down you have less chance of hitting up high.

I have no problem with Crosby. He's a great player and a true gentleman sportsman. He will fight when he needs to. He gets down low in the front and takes the punishment to get the shot. He's not a wimp and I'd be glad to have him on the Bruins. My point was that he's only speaking up now when he is on the receiving end of a concussion (and not a deliberate one IMO) but that's the way it goes. Its also only natural that the media takes more notice.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

The NHL just needs to hire Roger Goodell.

He is intelligent and practical. He would never fit into the old boys club that runs the NHL.

Originally Posted by 89911

Stanley Cup and Gold medal winner, leads the NHL is about every category this year (Where's the Ovechkin fans lately?) Solid citizen and the hardest working player in hockey. Never amuses me more then to hear the idiotic complaints about him (Whining, whining?? really, you can't come up something better then that over the last 5 years?) Sure you hate him, unless he played on your team. Your up in Boston, look how they treat Brady now. Maybe he is the source of preferential treatment in sports today.

Word. He sits and answers questions patiently and politely until every reporter has had a chance to talk to him. Compare him to some Toronto players that can't face the media, can't take criticism, and blame others. even the coach in Toronto can't answer questions, he thinks he is too good and too smart. Sid sells the game, it's his job, he shares in the revenue.

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

And what fan are you, the Devils???? They damn near ruined hockey with their trap.

And the Hockey Gods are punishing them this year. All is well.

Originally Posted by wcc

I read somewhere else that Stuart got his jaw broken in two places from this hit. As a father of a very young (7yo) hockey player I really hope by the time he gets there he is wearing a full face helmet. College Hockey all wear full face cages FWIW.

As someone who played competitive hockey with a full cage I can tell you they generally worsen the hit. The cage is rammed into your jaw and hits that would never hurt (without a cage) cause pain for days after. Yea, they protect your 'facial features', personally I chose to get my face cut. It hurts less.

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I propose that the league needs to rule that when a head shot is deemed illegal and deliberate that the offending player should be suspended without pay until the injured player is able to return.

Issue #2 - When would Matt Cooke play again? When Savard played in the playoffs last year? Would he then sit out the beginning of the season because Savard's condition returned? And if Savard gets a second concussion, is Cooke partially responsible for that, after all successive concussions get worse and worse? See Lindros, Eric.

Nice idea, not practical.

Here is a typical 'big guy hits with shoulder on little guy':

YouTube - Zack Kassian Hit on Petr Senkerik (HD) - Canada vs Czech Rep. (WJC 2011)

Not a penalty when it happened, then a major, and a game, then two more games. Part of the 'new reality'.

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Not really. First and foremost, blind-side hits like Cooke on Savard or Kostopolous on Stuart. These were easily recognizable as intentional and malicious. Plus, we have high speed high def cameras. They can see what's where the player is looking, how they are moving...

Back in the day, players had respect for the Gretskys. Sure they did stuff but, not like this. Back then, each team had a goon/enforcer to ensure that the best players were protected. The game was slower too so less momentum meant less damage. Also, if you keep your stick down you have less chance of hitting up high.

I have no problem with Crosby. He's a great player and a true gentleman sportsman. He will fight when he needs to. He gets down low in the front and takes the punishment to get the shot. He's not a wimp and I'd be glad to have him on the Bruins. My point was that he's only speaking up now when he is on the receiving end of a concussion (and not a deliberate one IMO) but that's the way it goes. Its also only natural that the media takes more notice.

The blind-side hit rule has been adopted. Note the difference between blind-side and inattention. Look at the Kaberle hit by the Devils goof Janssen. Kaberle makes a pass and then decides to watch the puck go up the ice while he leaves himself totally vulnerable. It's called situational awareness, who is on the ice, and what can that guy do to you, be ready for the expected outcome. Kaberle was not ready. The outcome speaks for itself. Does a player stop or let up because his opponent isn't ready to play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZnp3MZXDrs

Players respected Gretzky because he played with Semenko, McSorely et al. Touch their breadwinner and pay the price. people decry the absence of the instigator rule, yet they also compain that clean hits lead to fights. If the instigator rule is so effective, why does this happen?

I wish you luck suspending players based on 'intent'. When Police ticket people for 'intent' to drive dangerously we get up in arms over $500 fine. When the league penalizes a player $100,000 (or more) we are good with it.

Is this a suspendable hit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-EVYYgp4GY

Foligno took the puck off Dwyer, Dwyer was so low he took an unraised elbow, or upper arm, to the head. Whose fault is that? What should Foligno have done? Let him go? Change his angle so that he missed the opportunity to take the puck?

This is a high speed dangerous game played by large men who got to the top by playing hard and taking every opportunity that came their way. Now over the space of one summer we want to change the game and we can't understand why they 'don't get it'.

Speaking up for the other players is not 'the code'. 'The code' is to protect your team and it ends there. It is the unions job to protect its members. The union is in disarray and the players are paying the price.

Some of you are passionate about civil rights (and the right to bear arms). We are passionate about the worlds greatest game. Feel free to argue with me, provided you are willing to accept that you are wrong.

[Roosterrusek]

Totally disagree that the hit on Cindy was dirty....the rear angle shows Steckel skating straight, and Cindy turns directly into him....I mean it looks like Steckel tried to go away from Crosby....

That's not dirty, that's hockey.

[1990C4S]

YouTube - 2011 Winter Classic - David Steckel's Hit On Sidney Crosby

Explain again why this is a dirty hit. a) Steckel is too tall? b) Crosby is too short? c) Steckel failed to negotiate his way around Sid, as one might do on the street d) it was 'intentional'? e) other?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3mrw2eWLOo

What penalty should be called on Hedman, checking from behind? And how do you justify a suspension? Simply from the fact that Crosby was hurt?

Marks will be assigned for spelling, coherence, application of the current NHL policy, and by whim.