School Me on Buying Used at Dealer

[kaisen]

To make McLovin happy, here's an alternative 7 series that is going through BMW Financial auction this week:

2008 750i Black/Black, Sport Package (20" alloys, lowered sport suspension tuning, 3-spoke st wheel with paddle shift, sport F/R fascias), Luxury Package (heated F/R seats, ventilated/cooled and massaging front seats, heated steering wheel, rear sunshades). It's just about to turn 45K miles. In service date of 2/23/08 means it has almost one year left under factory bumper to bumper warranty (to help sort any bugs). Has new-ish Pirellis with 7-8/32 tread. One owner California lease return, located at the BMW auction in Las Vegas. They estimate the hammer price in the low $33s.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Eric, when you sell your car yourself and buy from an individual I'd bet money you'll always come out ahead. Sell it yourself for substantially more money, buy from an individual for substantially less. While dealers love to talk about how difficult it is for an individual to get financing, I've never had a private party sale fall through because the buyer couldn't get a loan. That applies on everything from a $6k Silverado with a salvage title to a $25k 996.

I can't argue on the hassle issue, as always convenience will cost you money. Personally I've met a lot of nice people with the cars that I've sold, some of which I still keep in contact with. I think a thorough well-written ad helps weed out the illiterate retards that prowl Craigslist.

[MisterB]

In Ohio I will be paying on sales tax 7.75% on the full sale price of the BMW

so if I buy at 29,000 another $2,247 for sales tax

If I buy new I pay on net difference between sales and trade

Did I mention I hate taxes.............

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Eric, when you sell your car yourself and buy from an individual I'd bet money you'll always come out ahead. Sell it yourself for substantially more money, buy from an individual for substantially less. While dealers love to talk about how difficult it is for an individual to get financing, I've never had a private party sale fall through because the buyer couldn't get a loan. That applies on everything from a $6k Silverado with a salvage title to a $25k 996.

It's not a dealer thing. If you don't have a bank or credit union you know, like, and trust obtaining financing can be a HUGE pain, especially on a non-conventional car (older, exotic, higher miles, salvage title, etc). They're eager to help with late model cars, writing 60 to 72 month loans for anyone with decent risk. But older cars present risks that newer ones don't, including the ability to recover their expenses in case of default. Repo a four year old Camry? Psshh, they'll sell it at auction next week. Repo a 140K mile 1979 Porsche 911SC? Good luck. Usually, it's not that drastic, but older cars are usually repo'd because they have mechanical issues that the borrower couldn't afford or justify, so the risks are huge for the lender to take on older and/or high-mile cars. Most banks have written guidelines that spell it out.

It may *appear* to not have been an issue for your previous transactions, but all it takes is ONE qualified buyer to sell your car. Trouble is, you don't see the hundreds that avoid your car because they can't finance it. A conventionally financeable late model car is easy. A cheap car is easy, as people can pay cash. In the middle, it's harder. Not impossible, but harder.

I can't argue on the hassle issue, as always convenience will cost you money. Personally I've met a lot of nice people with the cars that I've sold, some of which I still keep in contact with. I think a thorough well-written ad helps weed out the illiterate retards that prowl Craigslist.

Retards only buy from poorly written ads? I keed. You're right. But you're in the minority that think it's easy to sell your own car.

Convenience costs money, no matter what the matter at hand. If you can build your own guitar, like slodave, why buy one from a shop? If you can make your own food, why go to a restaurant? When you make $50/hr (likely the average demographic on Pelican) would you spend 20 hours messing around to sell your own car to save/'make' $1000? Maybe, but then assign the risks you take accepting money, accepting liabilities, taking time away from family or hobbies, and it becomes a little fuzzy. I'm not making a case for dealers. But it isn't black and white either.

[NutmegCarrera]

MisterB-
When the dust settles, will you let us all know the final score?

I'm interested!

[G50]

Me too, I'm looking at something similar.

[MisterB]

Update

The salesman (very young and green) from the SAAB dealer called me back on Tuesday and asked if I was still interested in the 750i. I replied yes... offered him my car plus 7.5... told me he would speak to his manager... I really don't expect a call back anytime soon..... meanwhile I listed my car on craigslist for $20,600

Eric thanks for your all your insight......

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by kaisen

It's not a dealer thing. If you don't have a bank or credit union you know, like, and trust obtaining financing can be a HUGE pain, especially on a non-conventional car (older, exotic, higher miles, salvage title, etc). They're eager to help with late model cars, writing 60 to 72 month loans for anyone with decent risk. But older cars present risks that newer ones don't, including the ability to recover their expenses in case of default. Repo a four year old Camry? Psshh, they'll sell it at auction next week. Repo a 140K mile 1979 Porsche 911SC? Good luck. Usually, it's not that drastic, but older cars are usually repo'd because they have mechanical issues that the borrower couldn't afford or justify, so the risks are huge for the lender to take on older and/or high-mile cars. Most banks have written guidelines that spell it out.

It may *appear* to not have been an issue for your previous transactions, but all it takes is ONE qualified buyer to sell your car. Trouble is, you don't see the hundreds that avoid your car because they can't finance it. A conventionally financeable late model car is easy. A cheap car is easy, as people can pay cash. In the middle, it's harder. Not impossible, but harder.




Retards only buy from poorly written ads? I keed. You're right. But you're in the minority that think it's easy to sell your own car.

Convenience costs money, no matter what the matter at hand. If you can build your own guitar, like slodave, why buy one from a shop? If you can make your own food, why go to a restaurant? When you make $50/hr (likely the average demographic on Pelican) would you spend 20 hours messing around to sell your own car to save/'make' $1000? Maybe, but then assign the risks you take accepting money, accepting liabilities, taking time away from family or hobbies, and it becomes a little fuzzy. I'm not making a case for dealers. But it isn't black and white either.

A lot of truthful insight here.

It used to be easier to sell cars privately decades ago, but the financing on older cars has always had the same issues. On the flip side, there are plenty of loan sharks preying on the older used car trade. 25% interest is common.

I know of a couple sellers who try to eke out enough of a down payment to cover the cost of the car. Any payment they get is gravy.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Convenience costs money, no matter what the matter at hand. If you can build your own guitar, like slodave, why buy one from a shop? If you can make your own food, why go to a restaurant? When you make $50/hr (likely the average demographic on Pelican) would you spend 20 hours messing around to sell your own car to save/'make' $1000? Maybe, but then assign the risks you take accepting money, accepting liabilities, taking time away from family or hobbies, and it becomes a little fuzzy. I'm not making a case for dealers. But it isn't black and white either.

Man, can I print that off and make a poster of it to put up in the shop? That is so well put.

I don't know why, but it seems that people are at their most unreasonable when buying a car. Everyone wants a brand-new-condition car at 200k mile prices, with a guarantee that nothing will go wrong for several years, and payments at $200 a month.

I had a customer call me for financing yesterday. 2002 Windstar, 165k km (100k miles), 70 years old, retired, $1400/month pension (i.e. non-garnishable income), zero credit history except a bankruptcy back in the 80s, no credit cards, rents his house, no assets. I got him in at 15%, $200/month for 48 months with $1000 down. Total cost of borrowing is about $2800, though the lease is open with no penalties or admin fees to payout early. He was seriously pissed about the interest rate and the cost of borrowing. Zero chance of getting financed anywhere else that isn't in-house. WTF?

[sergeshishik]

I recently went to a "exotic" auto dealer and I was surprised that he was willing to trade in my 84 Targa for a 996. We put a deal together, and then he found a problem with my car fax! in 1987 at 64k miles my car was issued a NAM title which is issued when the owner discloses to a DMV mileage fraud, a broken odometer or that the actual mileage of this vehicle is unknown.

All the other odometer readings have checked out through the years. My question is should this hold up the sale, and if so does it have a value? I am thinking it is an error in the reporting, that was 24 years ago and the car has 99k miles today.

I am supposed to take delivery tomorrow and worried that this is going to throw a wrench in at the last minute.

Thanks.

[H.G.P.]

I love to go into a dealer and bargain. I liken it to athletic competition. I try to be quite fair so both of us come out a winner in some way though,

Any trade, I try to take in top condition..........I go in quiet and have done my homework on the numbers before going in. Any, new or otherwise, I do a complete inspection. (Last time I made them put it up on the rack.)

After negotiating offer and counter offer, I can get the dealer to get a final offer in writing. Only after I get the final offer, I state something along the following:

"If you'll abate/absorb tax, title (and any other fees) from your offer you have a deal." This results in the salesperson going back to the manager for approval. Has personally worked well for me.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by sergeshishik

I recently went to a "exotic" auto dealer and I was surprised that he was willing to trade in my 84 Targa for a 996. We put a deal together, and then he found a problem with my car fax! in 1987 at 64k miles my car was issued a NAM title which is issued when the owner discloses to a DMV mileage fraud, a broken odometer or that the actual mileage of this vehicle is unknown.

All the other odometer readings have checked out through the years. My question is should this hold up the sale, and if so does it have a value? I am thinking it is an error in the reporting, that was 24 years ago and the car has 99k miles today.

I am supposed to take delivery tomorrow and worried that this is going to throw a wrench in at the last minute.

Thanks.

Something like that on a carfax history makes the car MUCH more difficult for the dealer to sell to another customer. YOU know the car and its history, YOU are comfortable with it, know it to be reliable, but try telling that to someone who's looking at it for the first time. For all he knows, it could have 300k miles on it, and cleans up well. I think you either need to get the history straightened out from the dmv, in writing, or be prepared to take a big hit on trade-in value - probably 20%. That's what I'd be looking to discount for something like that.

[asphaltgambler]

make sure th car is CPO - possible if it is not that any warranty will not transfer