Good compact 9mm?

[jyl]

On fixed vs floating barrel - I've read where guys measured the ID and OD of the barrel, bushings, and slide, and came up with 0.005" slack. 0.005" over 5" is equivalent to 1" over 25 yards.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by ZLP

I'll take you up on that. In a rest or standing unsupported? 25 or 50 yards?

is it stock?

or accurized?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Yes it's expensive but what I really like about the P7M13 is that you have a "proper" grip.
Most compacts have shortish grips that IMO would make them more difficult to hold and use when it really counts.

The HK P7 is also extremely compact for a pistol with a 4.2" barrel. All the other makes on the market in 9mm that can match the overall length of a P7 have much shorter barrels in the 3.5" or less range. The P7 is so compact because of it's gas retarded blow back operation. A P7 is also much more compact than a P9.

If you can swing $600, a P7 is an extremely sound choice. They are insanely accurate and tremendously reliable. The squeeze cocker makes them extremely user friendly. The heel release police trade in models are also extremely flat, which is a huge plus in any carry gun.


My P7 West German police trade in with Nill grips


Off hand, 10 yards, Corbon Sierra 115gr+P

Plenty of great 9mm subcompacts on the market to choose from though. If money was no object, I would pick a Kahr PM9.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave_D

The Ruger is a shameless copy of the KelTec PF9 . For the money, KelTec.

Actually the Ruger LCP is a shameless copy of the P3AT....with improved fit and finish and a slide release.

Here's my LCP:


This is my exact "every day carry" (EDC) rig.

[azasadny]

A few weeks ago, I worked on a family member's FEG PA 63 and I could not find 9mm Makarov ammo for it anywhere locally. In the 3 years I've been picking up brass at the local ranges to reload, I've only picked up 10 9x18 (Makarov) empty cases... I was not impressed with the quality of the FEG PA 63 and this one would not reliably eject steel-cased ammo, which I don't recommend anyway due to the strain it places on the ejector...

I was a nice Sig P239 in 9mm, like the one I carry for $425 at a local gun shop a few months ago and that's a pretty good deal since the gun sells for about $800 new. If I'm going to carry the gun, I really don't want to carry a brand-new gun, I'd rather carry one that already has a few scratches, holster wear, etc...

My wife has put over 1100 rounds through her Ruger LCP in .380, but that little gun is easy to carry but it's not a lot of fun to shoot.

You really have to clearly determine exactly what you want out of a gun and that will narrow down your choices, after that, it's personal preference.

I don't care for Kahr, but that's only because the Moonies (Unification Church) own the company, as well as Auto Ordnance, but that's just me, many folks will not care at all.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by ZLP

I'll take you up on that. In a rest or standing unsupported? 25 or 50 yards?

i see yer a secret squirrel and yer here in az. oh boy! anytime anyplace on a rest off hand 7 yds 25yds 50yds.

you cannot beat a fixed barrel with a 1911, it is physically impossible.


thats like saying a semi auto rifle will shoot a tighter group than a bolt action. and on that subject i will say even if ya have a PSG1 you aint gonna print a group = to a mcmillian bolt using apple to apple federal rounds. semis have TOO MANY MOVING PARTS!


believe it or not there are quite a few spoons that OUTSHOOT the SHOOTER!


example: my sons m1a "loaded" shot some good groups out of the box. now he is having phil arrington install a mcmillian usmc f/glass stock and bed it. he is doing a trigger job, and he is hand fitting the sights and a NM flash suppressor. yer basic menu like this will improve the average shooters groups by a minimum of 50%. it will take years for him to come up to the level of the spoon and realize he now needs a super match if he continues to search for the elusive "X"

another example with a pistol: ruger 22/45. out of box w/fed match 40gr it shot real nice. after entering combat wombat at rio salado and having our azz'z handed to us by others w/ zoomy walthers and hot rodded rugers/brownings we opted for a tactical solutions threaded barrel and compensator. slapped that puppy on and the damn thing puts 'em thru the same hole all damn day long IF YOU CAN! amazing freeking accurracy w/federal match 40gr's. and the groups didnt change an iota when using a awc suppressor from my ffl buddy.


fixed barrels just cant be beat for repeat accurracy.


and remember...............a TIGHT .45 aint gonna function for POO when the POO goes down and it gets dirty and dusty unlike the HK delayed roller blow back system on the HK P9S which is the exact same as a G-3 which if ya watch their testing videos they run over with 5 ton trucks in the mud and drop off 3 story buildings and submerge in water and squib rounds and they STILL SHOOT INSANE GROUPS!


read mossad ayoobs article on the HK P9S. he used to shoot the BIANCHI CUP with one.


i have watched ALOT of HIGH DOLLAR STI and OTHER MFG's 1911 race guns malfunction at 3 gun matches. FTF or FTE doesnt matter............they failed. an HK P9S is my SHTF out da door go to spoon hands down and IT ALWAYS GOES BANG!


i'd give my left/right huevos for a P9S TARGET in .45 and 9mm. that would be my ultimate barnyard score. they are so damn spendy now its pathetic.

[jpachard]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

believe it or not there are quite a few spoons that OUTSHOOT the SHOOTER!

Truer words were never spoken. I was at the range one time next to a guy with an AR-15 with all the Whizz bang parts and rails with more stuff hanging off them than my Christmas tree. I was shooting my ratty old Garand and when we went to look at our targets his was downright embarrassing.... I think he missed the paper 50% of the time.

Oddjob, earlier you said you saw a USPC in stainless, are they still making those? Mine is stainless but I thought they ceased production on them.

James

[ZLP]

Originally Posted by RWebb

is it stock?

or accurized?

Bone stock Springfield FBI Professional model.

[Rick Lee]

Lots of smack talk here. We need to have an AZ Pelican IDPA or some kind of shooting competition. I'm in.

[ZLP]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Lots of smack talk here. We need to have an AZ Pelican IDPA or some kind of shooting competition. I'm in.

Anyone else a member of Phoenix Rod and Gun? I can't stand the range Nazi's at Avery.

[ODDJOB UNO]

just yesterdays e-blast i get from cdnn had a brand NIB hk stainless USPC. as far as i know they still do.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by ZLP

Bone stock Springfield FBI Professional model.

What's the MSRP on that? There are some $2500 "bone stock" 1911's that are only "bone stock" because they come fully decked out from the factory.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by NotaBRG

What are the thoughts on the KelTec PF9?

My fil just got one and he loves it so far.

MSRP of $333 is pretty cheap.

I think you get a $333 dollar gun when you buy one.

As a former KT owner, my opinion of them is rather low.

[ZLP]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

What's the MSRP on that? There are some $2500 "bone stock" 1911's that are only "bone stock" because they come fully decked out from the factory.

Yea around that. Its a stock duty gun, not a comp gun.

[m21sniper]

I need to add a nice 1911 to my battery of arms, just to have one. I had a GORGEOUS high polished blue Springfield champion that i wore the finish off of from carry duty. I could kick myself for ever even putting that pistol in a holster.

I LOVE a high polish blue firearm, but that's not the most durable of finishes.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by NotaBRG

At some point the dollars don't add function.

Are there functionality issues? Or is more fit and finish issues?

Superior fit and finish is a huge part of what you get when you buy an expensive firearm.

However, even beyond that, you get much higher levels of intrinsic accuracy potential, as well as in some cases, greatly enhanced service life and severe duty protection.

An HK USP is in an entirely different league wrt accuracy, service life, fit and finish and severe duty capability than a KT P11, but for almost triple the price, it should be. And it is.

96 hours of saltwater immersion protection does not come cheap. However, for an average CCWer, that is something you'll never really need either.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

CW9 is about .6" longer than the PM9 isn't it? (3.6 vs 3" barrel?)

If the CW9 is the one with the 3.6" barrel, it will carry about 70fps more muzzle velocity than the PM9. The CW9 is a good bit cheaper than the PM9.

I would happily own or carry either pistol.

EDIT: Nope, looks like they're both 3" barrels. Some say polygonal rifling gives more velocity, but others discount this claim.

My mistake. I mistakenly wrote "CW9", but posted the correct link to the new "CM9". It must've been my vertical dyslexia. Yeah, that's it.

As for the AZ IDPA-style smackdown, I'm in. It would be a great opportunity for me to learn. I have no delusions about my shooting skills. At 10 yards I can manage minute-of-bad-guy in "fast" shooting and can punch one-hole groups in "slow" shooting. All this talk about accuracy at 25 yards etc. is just that. Talk. Very few of us on this board have ever been shot at and even fewer have ever shot back with a handgun. A spoon capable of a 1" group at 25 yards will produce the same result as a spoon capable of a 5" group when the spoon-holder has just suffered a massive adrenaline dump.

[m21sniper]

A lot of it has to do with confidence. If you have a pistol that is a tack driver, it will impart more confidence on the user than one that shoots garbage can lid sized groups at 25yds.

Confidence is not a bad thing.

I am going to have to price the Kahr CM9's, because i have a major want for a PM9, they're just sooo expensive. Maybe i can wait about a year and find a used CM9 on the market. The things are small.

The Kahr PM9 9mm is virtually the same size as a Ruger LCP, which is a very small .380 pistol.



There's a brand new sig sauer super compact about to hit the market too. It's also a 9mm, here's a pic:


Sig P290

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by ZLP

Anyone else a member of Phoenix Rod and Gun? I can't stand the range Nazi's at Avery.

I shoot at Ben Avery once in a while, when playing with long guns and/or shooting bi-metal ammo. I'd much rather deal with their range nazis than constantly getting swept by all the gang bangers and noobs out there with zero gun safety etiquette training. The range nazis usually come over to chat, look at my guns and talk strategery and tactics. For indoor stuff, I shoot at Scottsdale Gun Club. Sometimes it's nice to shoot with no wind. I was very close to adjusting some sights on a SIG that was always off when outdoors, before I realized it was all that wind at Ben Avery and it was dead on when indoors.

[m21sniper]

My brother runs a local indoor range, so i shoot there for free whenever i want. I just have to supply my own ammo.

It's nice.