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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,429
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I'd look at the smaller CZ75 clones. EAA used to import a nice one called the TA-90 (full size) and "Baby TA-90" (chopped). Very reliable, very accurate.
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“IN MY EXPERIENCE, SUSAN, WITHIN THEIR HEADS TOO MANY HUMANS SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THE MIDDLE OF WARS THAT HAPPENED CENTURIES AGO.” |
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04-13-2011, 10:23 AM
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AutoBahned
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I want to see this, tho I dunno what the FBI specs |
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04-13-2011, 12:24 PM
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Back in the saddle again
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Central TX west of Houston
Posts: 56,756
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Steve '08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960 - never named a car before, but this is Charlotte. '88 targa  SOLD 2004 - gone but not forgotten
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04-13-2011, 01:07 PM
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"YOU CANT RACE A CAB."
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smack talk???????????????????
once you shoot a fine tuned spoon YOU WILL NEVER BE THE SAME! ie. out of the box is generally a joke. nothing and i mean NOTHING I OWN has NOT been fine tuned by a spoon smith that makes his bread and butter off the models i own. accurate and repeatable costs. no getting around it. fit is numero uno. i only buy what fits. unlike when i was a wet nosed kid 30 years ago and thought "tacti-cool". and learned my lessons the hard way. got a smith................go to a AAA rated smith-smith. nelson ford thegunsmith.com got an hk..............send it to grayguns aka bruce gray or hk in georgia got a snotgun(rem/moss/hk/benelli).................go to VANG COMP got a bolt..................mcmillian got a semi auto m1a/m-1 garand/m-1 carbine-arrington accuracy/smith ent. got a 1911...................nelson ford thegunsmith.com got a subgun?.....................jim hulihan wanna suppressor? ...............dave fischer wanna phlanx system? ...............dillon aero/mfg. wanna .50? ..................mcmillian lever actions(winnies/marlins) nelson ford the gunsmith.com its EXACTLY LIKE HORSEPOWER...................HOW FAST(accurate) DO YA WANNA BE???? i dont just look at a spoon for what it is. i look at a spoon, find out if it fits me, test fire if at all possible, go to multiple publications and do research, ask people at matches or just at range their feelings, AND THEN.......................SEARCH EVERY DAMN PUBLICATION AND WEBSITE FOR EVERY DAMN TRICK IN THE BOOK TO MAKE THEM BETTER! and thats when the gloves come off, finances go to freeking hell and i aint happy until the fat lady sings and the damn bullet goes thru the same hole. its beyond OCD this sport, and once hooked YOU WILL NEVER BE HAPPY JUST OUT OF THE BOX ACCURATE! you will always strive to make them better. and i am sorry to say some are just flat lemons and need to be culled. then ya get to sight them in. oh boy here we go with what the hell flavor groups best. then get some wise azz beer drinking friend of yours who reloads, concoct a load for ya to try out and next thing yer chasing yer tail there. then ya need a spoon case. a spoon cleaning kit. all the spoon chemicals to clean it. then all the user friendly goodies added. and then ya take it to a gumsmithy and he waves his magic wand, and by the time yer done....................usually you have a damn fine shooter that 99.9999% of the time will OUTSHOOT YOU! its a wicked damn sport, but its better than sex and lasts a lifetime. and face it guys...................its a YOUNG MANS SPORT for those of US(me) FOUR EYES(wearing glasses) and what i could do in my 20's and what i can do in my 50's are polar opposites. so then..............................ya figure out FINE OPTIKS and go down that trail of tears crapping bengies out yer azz like diarrea searching for the BEST SCOPE! hensoldts/leupolds/zeiss dont come cheap by any stretch. and on and on it goes and the next thing ya have 3 damn spoon safes in yer living room and wifey is madder than a hornet! my longest shot ever on a cow elk from 867 yds lasered and witness'd , my point of aim and where point of impact ended up...................i was 1/4" below. now do you think that damn cow elk felt anything different?????? that damn win m-70 mcmillian .338 w/4.5 x 14 leupold shoots .559 groups all damn day. my mcmillian m40A1 shoots thru the same hole all damn day. NOBODY ON THE FREEKING PLANET CARES.........................EXCEPT ME! and thats ALL THAT MATTERS! and THATS CONFIDENCE! and CONFIDENCE COSTS MONEY!
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if there are TROUT..........there are BEARS! Last edited by ODDJOB UNO; 04-13-2011 at 01:28 PM.. |
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04-13-2011, 01:25 PM
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 21,159
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The point is though, it's a capability that really drives up the cost of a top end military/police oriented pistol like a HK. Another very popular HK model: 
Last edited by m21sniper; 04-13-2011 at 01:33 PM.. |
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04-13-2011, 01:31 PM
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"YOU CANT RACE A CAB."
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the worst thing you can do on the planet is leave a freeking spoon in a leather holster for any amount of time. no finish is perfect. sooner or later they WILL WEAR! my hk uspc robar is showing wear from coming in/out of a serpa holster. its a fact of life this will happen to carry spoons. even if stainless sooner or later they will show wear. all ya can do is buy stainless/nickel/ robar it/or buy a mfg with a quality finish(HK). give me a break, do ya think i leave mine laying around in JP4? or kerosene? or diesel? well believe it or not one of the worst things for a finish IS SWEAT! and whats in SWEAT? freeking SALT! and thats why a finish that includes protection against salt water immersion is important. and i sweat like a PIG! cuz im here in the forgotton foresaken wasteland here in the freeking SOUTHWEST!
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if there are TROUT..........there are BEARS! |
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04-13-2011, 01:35 PM
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Registered
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tioga Co.
Posts: 5,942
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'86na, 5-spd, turbo front brakes, bad paint, poor turbo nose bolt-on, early sunroof switch set-up that doesn't work. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. |
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04-13-2011, 03:20 PM
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winter-hater club member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: salt lake city, utah
Posts: 24,705
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i was thinking that $9/box for any ammunition is pretty cheap. i pay at least twice that to fuel my .40sw.
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2000 Corvette - ????, 2007 Buell XB9R - Astrid, 1996 Discovery - Piglet, 2000 Forester "COOL PRIUS!" - Nobody Ever |
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04-13-2011, 03:50 PM
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B58/732
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
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You: No it's not, it' just a mild steel core. Range Ossifer: No, look. It's attracted to this handy-dandy magnet I have in my pocket. You: Yes, because it's got steel in it. Steel is magnetic. Range Ossifer: There's no such thing as that. It's armor piercing. This indoor range has a steel backstop. Know what happens if you shoot through it with your evil armor-piercing bullets? You'll kill everyone in the next ZIP code. Now I'm going to give you the stink-eye until you put those away and shoot something else. If you like, you can buy our copper-jacketed ammo of the same caliber to shoot. It only costs 3x what you would pay anywhere else.
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ I don't always talk to vegetarians--but when I do, it's with a mouthful of bacon. |
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04-13-2011, 04:01 PM
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"YOU CANT RACE A CAB."
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there IS NO DOUBT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT!
and the difference btwn MOST OF YOU and me/rick/joe and others here.................is that all i have to do is grab my spoons/ammo bag and out de door and in 15 minutes be shooting at a range or out in the dez. i used to live so far from the metro area 28 years ago we hunted right off the porch. literally strap the spoons on and start blasting! and yes thems WERE DA DAYS! anyway with that in mind, the fact we put in for hunting multiple species every year and pray we get drawn, go shooting competitively, and basically live eat breathe sleep outdoors gives most of us an edge on the city slickers and non spoon states as far as practice and aptitude with spoons. its a daily thing for me as i have writtian. its a daily thing for rick and joe and others as we are AZCCW holders. going out plinking is a GAS! going to range indoor/outdoor and plinking/sighting in is GREAT! but where you will be fast tracked knowledge wise quicker than POO THRU A GOOSE.................is joining a club like myself azpra or rio salado and doing a combat wombat match once a month or bi-monthly as well as a rifle match monthly or bi monthly. you WILL NOT BELIEVE THE IMPROVEMENT IN YER SCORES FROM THE 1st DAY and then 6 months,a year later! you will look back and admit you were a TOTAL SQUID for those of you who dont get out but a couple times a year. the best thing is do it with yer kids either pistol or rifle or both. its A GAS! one of these days im a gonna be shooting in a 3-spoon match and i cant wait! and if my younger sons back in town from his out of state job he wants to enter. MONKEY SEE.....................MONKEY DO! nothing better than being with real shootists. unlike many sports dont judge the book by its cover is rule one. it is a sport that nobody is rude at for obvious reasons. ever notice how happy people are at ranges? LOL! and i have met some great people that have helped me get where i am at now. i have as much fun shooting as i do working on them, and building them and CLEANING THEM! a HELL OF ALOT OF BANG FOR BUCK spending a weekend at the range(both days). or even going camping and having a shooting festivus blasting cans. but back to custom spoons..................once yer hooked there is NO TURNING BACK! when you see someone with the exact spoon you have turning circles around you blasting targets taking "X" out, well its a GIVEN you will walk up and start chatting about grips/sights/custom loads/stocks/actions/barrels/optiks etc. and then you just may as well let the fat lady sing until its over if ya really have the inclination to get good with what ya got. (2) catalogs i receive once a year..................BROWNELLS and MIDWAY and they are read COVER TO COVER! and scads of other publications read for good and for bad. as i mentioned about M1A's............the basic menu for getting tighter groups is a f/glass stock bedded, smooth trigger, hand fit sights. thats a 50% increase in yer groups getting tighter. so say ya have a lever. hard to bed those. but if you butter up the trigger instead of some creepy azz out of the box trigger, yer groups just got tighter. slap some williams fire sights or some XS sights that yer eye can pick up in an instant instead of crappy OEM sights..............and yer groups will be tighter. smiths historically have a fantastic single action trigger straight from the factory. the double action trigger is about 15 pounds and CRAP! smooth that out.........and yer groups will be tighter. chamfer the cylinder for using speedloaders is a great help. i like the OEM sights, my poor eyes pick them up easily. but for my model 29-2-.44 mag 4" ...............i think we are going for a front XS NIGHT SIGHT as this is my last ditch bear mtn kitty spoon. its being quad magnaported and having cylinder chamfered and the double action smoothed out. i wouldnt have it any other way. the warm fuzzy you receive from a pro spoon smith is really priceless. and its evident the 1st time ya bench shoot it as you will see yer groups become ALOT BETTER! yeah it leaves me in the poor house alot of times until the fat lady sings, but in the end, i wouldnt trade it for nothing. and believe me some of these spoon journeys have been a LONG STRANGE TRIP until we got them sorted out.
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if there are TROUT..........there are BEARS! Last edited by ODDJOB UNO; 04-13-2011 at 04:36 PM.. |
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04-13-2011, 04:32 PM
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winter-hater club member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: salt lake city, utah
Posts: 24,705
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i see. i didn't realize it had a steel core. that is interesting. why would they do that? a steel core? to penetrate armor?
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2000 Corvette - ????, 2007 Buell XB9R - Astrid, 1996 Discovery - Piglet, 2000 Forester "COOL PRIUS!" - Nobody Ever |
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04-13-2011, 04:40 PM
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Registered
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I just came back from the range an hour ago and was shooting some .40 in soft lead, unjacketed. I did get a ricochet in my shin, but it was pretty small and slow.
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2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS |
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04-13-2011, 05:33 PM
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winter-hater club member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: salt lake city, utah
Posts: 24,705
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rick, thanks for the information. how does the steel jacket not damage the barrel of the pistol?
-sorry for the hijack-
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2000 Corvette - ????, 2007 Buell XB9R - Astrid, 1996 Discovery - Piglet, 2000 Forester "COOL PRIUS!" - Nobody Ever |
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04-13-2011, 06:09 PM
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Registered
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I don't know. It's not all steel. It's a copper alloy. For the money it saves me, I don't mind buying a new extractor or barrel every 10 yrs. or so, though I doubt I'll ever have to do that.
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2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS |
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04-13-2011, 06:23 PM
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Back in the saddle again
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Central TX west of Houston
Posts: 56,756
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Quote:
I was at the range the other day. There was some guy a few lanes over that had at least 1 cannon maybe 2. I don't know what he was shooting, but it made my 9mm sound like a pop gun. 5 yards and his groups were easily 12". The crazy thing is that he'd shoot 1 or 2 shots nice and slow and actually hit decently, then he'd shoot a few rounds a bit faster and they'd be all over the place. Then he'd fire off a volley of rounds at light speed. I kept thinking, "he's a lousy shot, but really good at spending money on ammo." He must have had 2 guns because at one point I looked over and saw him shooting a revolver that was some huge stainless beast that had what was either a 6" or more likely an 8" barrel. It was enormous. I'm not a great shot, but I'm trying to work on it, and I'm getting better. Pretty much every time I'm at the range I see folks that are shooting 8" and 12" groups at 5-7yards. I've seen guys with lasers shooting 6" groups at 5 yards. Honestly, I love it when those folks are there. They make me feel like a sharp shooter.
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Steve '08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960 - never named a car before, but this is Charlotte. '88 targa SOLD 2004 - gone but not forgotten
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04-13-2011, 07:42 PM
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 21,159
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04-13-2011, 08:03 PM
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Low Speed, High Drag
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Most Wanted | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET
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04-13-2011, 08:23 PM
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Registered
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I have a Detonics CombatMaster. 5 + 1 of .45 ACP in a micro-1911. Slim but heavy, 34 oz empty. What would I benefit by getting a mini 9mm? A serious question, not a rhetorical one.
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04-13-2011, 08:44 PM
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 21,159
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04-13-2011, 08:47 PM
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B58/732
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
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I like the CombatMaster a lot. So much so that I have two. But they stay in the safe and I'd rather carry a Colt Defender or New Agent if I were to carry a compact 1911. They are lighter (alloy frame), more reliable (if for no other reason than that Colt is still in business), designed for Condition 1 carry (the Detonics is designed for Condition 2), and safer (functioning grip safety).
And they are more than accurate enough. Seriously, guys, get off the accuracy thing. A compact is not a spoon that you take to bullseye competition. What matters in a compact is reliability (will it go bang every time?), shootability (will you practice with it?), carryability (is it a boat anchor that will pull your pants down around your ankles?), and reliability (I said that already, but it bears repeating). Any quality compact pistol made today--and most made in the past 100 years--will be more than accurate enough to serve a SD role for even the most skilled shooter.
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ I don't always talk to vegetarians--but when I do, it's with a mouthful of bacon. |
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04-13-2011, 10:43 PM
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Only Porsche
Only bike
1980 Porsche 930
1970 Porsche 911
1989 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2
