The Surface - Is it a rival to the iPad?
 

Microsoft unveils 'Surface' tablet to compete with Apple's iPad | Fox News

Basically, it is a 1.5 lb tablet with a keyboard built into the cover. It will run full blown Windows 8. So this is basically my HP Slate, thinner, lighter, faster with a better screen and interface.

I am not sure this is a rival to the iPad. It seems more like a rival to the super thin, super portable notebooks.

Thoughts?

For sitting and typing for a long time the keyboard is a must.
Most people can somehow peck at grains of sand on their smartphones all day, but I no longer have that patience.

We have a thicker Android tablet, which has an identical setup.
-Quite nice to have the flexibility of choice, and it also has a mouse, a USB, and a printer port....all of which Mr. Jobs decided his world no longer required.
-Only problem is that it pauses which is entirely unacceptable with modern SSDs. And Google forgot the printer driver thingamabob, which apparently nobody uses either these days.

If it is android, you can load printbot. I use the postscript driver since most of the printers can understand it.

Seems to be more practical. Will go for one when released.

Burned out with tablets around the house and I just don't get the appeal of it when half the screen is used up for a keyboard. Back in '09 we purchased an HP tablet PC running 7 Ultimate and everyone gravitates to it. Ideal 12 inch screen. This thing has seen some abuse fortunately still under warranty, is on its third motherboard. However its on 24 /7 still runs solid 4 pushing 5 hours on the original 8 cell battery and is the media workhorse for the home. Often is used with a dual monitor, even online racing league (one night a week) when out of town and have to admit, far more practical than any solo tablet. It says, finger me and also has the pen, cute mini remote control, etc. Skype - buikt in face Scam, etc. Used with ACAD and any program, even old stuff back for Win 98 with XP mode. Even eats DVD's or BD to watch, convert, revert to the sky... total 'Swiss Army' knife of tablets / PC's.

What does it cost?

They didn't say, except in the same ballpark as the iPad.

Seems like a good option, the iPad certainly struggles to be used as a tool as opposed to a toy. I like mine but it has limited printer support, no mouse support, and I can't imagine typing for an extended period of time on the touch screen. If I used it for work I would buy one of the Bluetooth keyboard covers, those seem to work well.

The real question with these competitors - are they as easy to use? Apple is the master of making a UI simple and intuitive, everyone in my house uses our iPad including my 2 year old. No training required, they just pick it up and use it. You can't say that about a PC or most other smart phone/tablets.

I am interested. As far as the Ipad being easy to use. It is because there isn't a whole heck of lot of things you could (or want) to do beyond email, opening apps, and web browsing. Try to do more and it becomes MUCH harder to use then a Windows based laptop. I increasing find my ipad frustrating for more involved use and this becomes apparent when I take it and its the only tool I have on a trip.

I don't know for sure. But the whole point of Windows 8 is to make windows touch screen friendly. The icons are bigger and setup for touch. The interface is much more iPad/Android like on the "home" screen.

Now I understand why they didn't port office to the iPad already.

Sure looks like an iPad competitor to me. Also a MacAir competitor, and an UltraBook competitor. These devices are starting to converge.

Interesting, the MSFT video for Surface focuses entirely on the keyboard - they don't even show the screen turned on or anything but the keyboard. The gallery shots similarly emphasize the K/B. Surface by Microsoft I guess they are going for the consumers who don't like on-screen keyboards. Which is smart.

I wish they'd also grow a pair and go after handwriting recognition too. Apple is constrained here, the ghost of Newton meant that they would never use HWR so long as Jobs was alive. But a quarter of the world naturally uses HWR - the Asian countries - and with current processing power, HWR works really well, even on a first-gen iPad.

Apple is going after voice control with Siri, but I'm not sure if Apple or MSFT are pushing voice input i.e. dictation. That works really well too. I dictate most of my texts now.

Finally, I've played with one of the new Nokia smartphones running mobile Windows, I guess we call it Windows RT now. I was pretty impressed - they seem to have figured out how to make a Windows that doesn't think you have a mouse or stylus and a 13" screen. That was the problem with previous tablet Windows, you were always tapping on tiny menu bars and squinting at objects scaled down from a 17" monitor, they just didn't get it. I'm suspecting, based on 5 minutes of playing, that they've got it now.

It is critical for MSFT to get Windows RT and Windows 8 right, because the power of their Windows-Office-Intel system is eroding. Office is increasingly looking like a dinosaur, kids today use Google Docs, OpenOffice works every bit as well as Office and is free, Apple is building its productivity suite. I bought my last copy of Office in 2004. Intel is chasing other operating systems just as MSFT is chasing other processors. In 2012, the argument that you should get a Windows tablet to run Office is wearing pretty thin. In 2016, the young folks won't care about it at all.

More like a smaller MacAir - with bad screen quality (I heard 1080p is the max on these things, low end stock will be 720p - that ain't Retina we are talking). It looks like it will run Windows RT/ARM when it first comes out which is crap.

No real release date - no pricing....

I wonder how the rest of the Windows hardware world feels - Microsoft building hardware - where do they come up with these things ( ;) remember the Windows Zune anyone????). The big boy manufacturers (Dell, HP, etc) aren't going to be happy... at all. Watch them push Android over Windows for their future 'tablet' devices, more so then they are now. Google must be ecstatic with Microsoft's decision to delve into the tablet market this way.

Oh John L. - the Apple dictation feature works great on the iPad - really amazing with third party too - like Facebook and Twitter.

I'm typing this on a Samsung Series 7 Slate running windows 8 connected through my windows phone. This is an ultrabook/MacBook level slate with a touch screen that accepts stylus, multi-touch finger, and keyboard input. Full size USB Micro HDMI and an SD slot if I needed it. 4g memory and a 128g SSD. It is my fulltime work computer, is 2 pounds runs an i5 quad core, I get a solid 5 hours of battery life in a work environment 6 if I stretch it. It boots from sleep in 3 seconds and from off in about 15. It is awesome.

The Surface, which looks like it is made by Samsung, takes this to a more refined level with a more integrated keyboard and stand, lighter weight and likely better battery with similar but also price point specs.

Windows 8 isn't perfect, takes some getting used to, but is a real integration of desktop and pad toy. The early win 8 apps are impressive in their greater simplicity and design, and I have my full Office suite to fall back on. All of this is integrated with my Desktop at home though skydrive. Microsoft really has a very good integrated productivity suite for mobile users. With Office 365 they have an integrated MS office available on an ipad spec level tablet.

I think MS's greater experience with tablets, rethinking of the phone OS and now integration really shows up with the new Surface. It looks like a winner.

I'm not sure you could port Office to the iPad. If you did, it would have severely limited capability. The iPad is not a power house. It is about 1/10th the processing power of the HP Slate I have. It is best suited for limited "apps" not full blown programs like a Windows PC or Mac.

The Capabilities of my HP Slate are similar to rhogg's machine, except I have not put Windows 8 on it yet. Maybe this weekend...

I know, but making a basic Office Suite for iPad available with limited features would have been easy, would have ensured document compatibility and would certainly have sold well on the App Store.

But then, what would be the driving reason to use "The Surface"? And then Microsoft's cash cow, the Office Suite, would be regulated through Apple's App Store. Not something I think they want long term.

Separately, there are certainly alternatives to office like Google Docs and Open Office, but higher end business use is still all Microsoft. The announcement of "The Surface" shows me that they are trying to play to their strengths.

When are they going to be released? Did they say?

Oddly enough, the link to the Microsoft site for "The Surface" seems to be down.

Surface by Microsoft

EDIT: Nevermind, it was an incomplete link. Should still work though. Stupid MS.

Sub'ed

I have nothing to add other than I am the only one in my house still on Windows...I have played around with my wife's iPad and love it for what it is. I do need a mouse, however.

Thanks for this discussion.

You have to know and acknowledge its limitations. The iPad is fine for email and light word processing or spreadsheet use. Beyond that it simply can't compete with a laptop or laptop based tablet, and frankly it's not designed to. I prefer to take my iPad on trips because it's easy to haul through an airport, but at times still carry a laptop based on the work I anticipate doing.

My other thought related to the iPad and other Apple products - they're all masterpieces of engineering. Apple manages to infuse the look and feel of quality into every product they produce. Most smartphones are plastic, while the iPhone has an aluminum frame and glass front/back. The iPad has an aluminum frame with a glass screen. They manage to make everything feel substantial and well made, which is noticeable to even the non-tech savvy buyer. My wife has commented on both her iPhone and iPad that they feel very well made. She can't tell you why, but it is the impression that you get from handling the product.

I bought a 3G iPad2 a few months ago. I played with it for a bit thinking I could use it in as extended office device, but just hasn't worked out. All it really seems to me is to be a bigger version of my iPhone, without the phone. Been sitting in my desk unused for the last couple of months. I am probably just going to sell it.

When I use my iPad it's sitting in my lap like I'm reading a book. I don't know if that would be possible with the keyboard cover of The Surface.

I assume it would fold flat across the back of the tablet. That's how the iPad Bluetooth keyboards work. Which BTW, look identical to the keyboard on the Surface.

Another gripe about the Android OS (current ver.) is the interface for creating and storing personal files. Still want to right click and "create new folder" but can't. Want to have options for opening folders and executing tasks but can't.
Windows had it pretty right in that regard.

Not sure I like the Win8 big-colorful-button-smartphone-interface for a regular multitasking work pc though, unless there is something more substantial behind those screens. For smartphones and small portable tablets it seems like an improvement.

720p is the minimum standard for win8. While the "Retina" display looks spectacular, the over-lay capacitive touch input resolution (of the ipad) is HORRIBLE.

The ipad input relies on peoples fat fingers. Go ahead, without zooming your ipad, click on one of the page numbers of one of these threads. (good effn luck w/ that) Even with a capacitive pen you will be pecking, and pecking and pecking, trying to hit that small hyperlink. --HOrrible touch input resolution.

Windows, OTOH, gives the user precision input. ....it's as if Microsoft sees their customer as someone who, on balance, creates, rather than solely consumes. ...Back to the spectacular "Retina" display --great for viewng photo's. ...WHAT? ...no SD slot to review a photo shoot? ...oh, but there is this barnacle that you can buy to read the tiny SD card (Apple is so elegant)

Back to the user precision input of Windows tablets... not only does the user get field precision, but also pressure precision. That is, where an ipad reads on or off (touch/no-touch only), the Windows machine will sense 256 levels of pen pressure, giving a true pen-like experience. AND, it even senses the pen just above the screen --which allows a cursor to hover over a field without selecting it. (which often provide the user with more info on that hyperlink)

But the ipad has ridiculously high display resolution. So, Pop the corn, and watch a movie on your tiny screen. (and feel superior, of course)

If the Surface will run MS Office with relative ease, I may be switching from my MacBook Pro. I have been waiting for a decent tablet that will allow me to run Office programs that I can dock on my desk, then take with me to Starbucks and review documents and surf the web or to a client appointment. My work is very portable, so I need something very light, good picture quality and fast enough not to get bogged down. I mostly only use Word, Excel, Web, Mail and photos. I am getting into Powerpoint as well.

If this fits the bill, I will still need a better portable printer.

Island - are you using a slate? Or do you have access to a Surface?

other than game consoles - Window's forays into hardware have been miserable at best. And I still don't understand why they are choosing the tablet to make a statement - I realize that perhaps they have finally seen the light from that glowing apple in the distance (software/hardware really integrated from one source)... but, past results certainly makes one wonder why? Plus - no release date - no 'ballpark' pricing... I know apple teases... but, the Surface seems to be just that at this point - surface fluff.

Would anyone 'create' on a tablet - mostly not, it isn't 'created' for that purpose. Can I really expect an iPad to replace my 27" iMac - hardly - I want to consume content on any tablet, along with an option to do minimal creation. No tablet is going to handle multiple gig video or photoshop files - nor do I expect that. With a tablet most expect a platform that delivers content extremely well - not one that creates it. Once again apple 'gets' it, by delivering a platform that excels in screen and sound, great access to web and social media, without bothering to be something it isn't, a machine that can do complicated spreadsheets and word docs.

Create on the real machine - cloud it - then use the portability of the tablet for on-location review, etc. These days, I would never, ever store 'real' files on a tablet - things get lost...

showing my age some but I have heard these arguments before.

paraphrasing to the max. In the sixties/seventies two rival groups agreed that to get desktop hardware to sell, because who would need to replace the IBM computers and their perfectly good method of input from punch cards and paper printouts output, you needed a killer app.

I think the killer app for the tablet computers will be/is the cloud. The cloud is doing all the heavy lifting and the tablet will be just the display and keyboard. (Is the Tablet just the Wyse 50's for the next generation?) IE,Firefox,Chrome are the interface. Bandwidth will be king. The Tablets, smart phones, Ipods, PC's will just be some of the ways we get there.

Now for my next speech in the Stating the Obvious series will be "Gravity, just a bump on Isaac Newton's head"

If you fly there are some nice charts and checklists on the iPad.

Wow, took you longer than usual! :D Don't get miffed, in the past 6 months I have gotten to be even more of a digital reactionary than you are.

To wit: in my opinion tablets are either toys or a platform for vertical applications. If you need to do more than one type of task, you need a good keyboard. If you need to do any meaningful input, you need a good keyboard.

"Meaningful" includes such heavy tasks as sending emails and posting on PPOT. :D Until voice recognition has advanced to the point where I can speak normally and the VR software transcribes at 100% accuracy, I will need a hardware keyboard. Nothing is more frustrating that trying to type with an on-screen keyboard that fights you every step of the way by trying to "help"--except maybe handwriting "recognition."

When my MacBook died two months ago (for the last time--I'm not shelling out the bucks to replace the screen) I went out and bought an 11" NetBook and put Xubuntu on it. $340 later I have a real computer that weighs little and lasts as long as my Acer Iconia A500 does on battery power. The only difference is that it's actually useful.

You know what has been great about reading PPOT almost exclusively on my iPhone and iPad...it cuts down on the amount of replies I make and silly arguments I get in, simply because typing long-winded, banal posts on the touch screens is not the most efficient process. But it's a good thing. There are a number of posters here who would benefit from some roadblocks to posting. Ymmv

I agree that a tablet is less productive without a physical keyboard. While you cannot physically connect a keyboard to an iPad, you can connect one via bluetooth. This is what I got for my iPad:
http://zagg-images.s3.amazonaws.com/...h-1_island.jpg
It is a Logitech / Zagg keyboard/case. Has a decent 'chicklet' keyboard -- not a slow soft-touch type keyboard.
Clicky here for more info.

BTW: I suspect that the Surface keyboard is also a bt keyboard, and not one with a usb-interface.

I type upwards of 75 words a minute, and a virtual keyboard just can't keep up with me, nor can a soft-touch keyboard! That is exactly why I have a bluetooth keyboard/cover for my iPad. An iPad coupled with a keyboard now becomes a very useful tool and can replaced a laptop in many applications. For example:
- For taking notes in a meeting, I open up Evernote and take notes there. I can then email it, or pick it up on my lappy or cell phone via "the cloud."
- Schoolwork: I am in an online MBA program, and much of my work has been done on my iPad, including answering discussion questions.
- For creating documents, I have Apple's Pages App for my iPad, and I can email such documents in pages, PDF, or MS-Word format to anyone.

Voice input is available on the new iPad: it is integrated into the keyboard: there's a microphone button: I press it, speak, and hit return. In seconds, my spoken word is typed infront of me. It is extremenly accurate, but requires a wifi (or cell) connection. I suspect it there's a bigger server/processor in the "cloud" dedicated to voice recognition.

Yeah, but Windows RT is not very popular at all. For one, they partnered with Nokia, which is a half-step behind RIM/Blackberry in terms of becoming obsolete.

Well stated. Office needs to bring an easy interface into the cloud, so users can access their files from their lappy, tablet, phone, whatever. Something like a sharepoint feature would be slick and appropriate, espeically for businesses tied to MS Office.

The iPad can be made into a useful tool, with the right accessories, like a keyboard, and as mentioned above, when it is able to use the processing power of "the cloud." But most tablets these days have the same benefits/limitations.

-Z-man.

The problem with "the cloud" is that we're not always on-line and the cellular data systems are way too limited.

My Slate is great. It is a fully blown machine. It comes, out of the box, with voice control. All Windows 7 machines do. It can and does run Office, unlike "google docs" which needs to be online, or Open Office which is missing an integrated mail application.

I am not getting into an argument about what is best. It all depends on your application. I have an Android Tablet and think it's great for its application: E-mail, reading, minor surfing.

But this looks much more like a mini-laptop than an iPad.

James:
Lots of apps use the cloud but do not rely exclusively on the cloud. Case in point: the Evernote app. I can use it on a device no problem, but it won't sync up the docs with my other devices until it has access to the cloud. The need to have that flexibility built in since it is true - there are still times when you simply can't be connected to the interwebs!

-Z-man.

I was thinking more like ChromeOs, which needs an internet connection to work.

Did not know that. Wow - is that a show-stopper!

-Z

Yeah, I saw your earlier post, but cool-paws needed some refined points.

I've been a tablet user since back in 2005 -so quite a few years before Apple invented them. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm a device junky of sorts. I like useful tech. As Blue will tell you, I have opinions about these tablets. (surprise)

I recently sold my HP Slate 500, but that's okay, because I still have a couple other travel tablets. ..plus my wife's. And, All have displays which are readable outside. --I chuckle at the poolside peeps in Hawaii trying to see their glossy (not bright enough for sunshine) displays on their ipads. I expect that the Kindle people are laughing at them too.

"Would anyone 'create' on a tablet?"

You're kidding, right? Digital arts are SOOO much better with pen-based input. Not only is there the precise control, but, unlike an iPad, pen-based gives palm rejection. that is, an ipad can't tell if you bushed the screen with a finger ...er, Fat finger;) OR brushed it with a fat palm.

I "create" as in making Office documents on a tablet.

I will say that for tablet input I no longer use the TIP. ...I use "Rite Pen" which allows writing input anywhere on the screen. ... works like the transcriber function in an old Window-Mobile Phone.

And yeah, I 'create' in a mixed-mode depending on need. Redlining a drawing or screen captures, for example, is great when you have a pen-based input device.

That, plus it's a serious security issue.

Basically you're streaming your usage verbatim to the net: medical records/legal records/business records/personal files/porn/music and media history/more porn/gaming/personal photos/and everything else others should never have access to.

That is pure "hacking", even when "data collecting" for "licensing" or "statistics" is written in the EULA.

There are going to be 2 versions of this. The ARM version is what they showed yesterday. From what I have read, it will be Win 8 Lite: very low power requirements, smaller form factor, but no network client. The challenge for MS will be the Intel version. Normally this means a bigger form factor and more heat from the processor. Ivy Bridge chipset could be what they need to overcome heat and package a full blown enterprise OS in a tablet form.

Again from what I have read, look for intro shortly after Win 8 releases.

Nah, it's Google. What could go wrong? :p