New to me shotspoon

[Buckterrier]

I went to Cabela's in Hamburg, Pa. yesterday, (big mistake). The store is amazing. First the spoon.
It is a Barker Batavia Leader in 12 gauge. Born on date is roughly 1910 from the serial number. The few things I found out about it is the receiver should be case hardened instead of it being blued. Also the barrels have been re-blued. I know it's not a high end spoon but she's beautiful and in good condition. I originally purchased it to make an SBS but not so sure now. If anyone has any other info on these things I'd appreciate it. Would it be worth having the receiver case hardened, (Dave?!). Can I even shoot the damn thing with today's modern ammo?
A few pics...








As I said the store is amazing. Huge and with these scenes all over it. I was told by a clerk, (not sure how accurate the statement is), that the place is the 2nd biggest tourist attraction in the country.

[9dreizig]

Nice purchase!!! With regards to Cabelas's,, each store's "dead animal zoo" is unique .. at our store here in Reno we have a "big 5" display.. that wolf/ musk ox display is very cool!!! That 2nd place must be collective with all the stores..

[vash]

i dont get too excited with those scenes.

some guy recently put up a blog about killing a black wolf. he said Cabelas offered him $10k for the animal. they wanted it in a display.

sheeshh $10k? i would drive the carcass there myself.

[vash]

nice SHOTGUN!!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Nice new toy.

We just had a Cabelas built in Wichita, it's one of their new smaller footprint stores (still huge), so the animal displays and touristy stuff isn't as big. I'm told that thus far it has been one of the most profitable stores in the entire country. Unfortunately it's only about one mile from my house, that has been expensive for me thus far.

[Taz's Master]

Great looking tool. In my area of PA, there are very huntable populations of grouse, rabbits, turkeys, doves, ducks/geese, and even woodcocks aren't rare. Those along with the pheasants the Game Commission stocks can make hunting with that firearm a very rewarding endeavor.

[Drdogface]

It looks as if the side plates can be easily removed for color case hardening. Turnbull is the best but theres also a place in Cody that does a great job...two guys who used to work for Ballard but opened their own place. Ballard moved to Mi I think. All places will hand polish the pieces which is where the expense piles up.

I've been to that Reno store dozens of times...it's always dangerous for my Visa card , but it is a Cabela's Visa so I get points for any purchase anywhere which is a great way to go. I presently have over $300 in credit. In addition to their dead animal zoo there's a huge fish tank with trophy size game fish.

[aigel]

Cabelas hasn't offered up for my grey squirrel hides. I even cut them dorsally, so they'd be perfect to mount.

I hope the experts will speak up, but shooting an old beater with modern ammo is usually not a good idea. I would at least load it down with some handloads.

G

[azasadny]

Nice shotgun!! David (Targa911s) will let you know all about it and what your options are

[Buckterrier]

Thanks guys, she is a nice looking shotgun.

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Nice purchase!!! With regards to Cabelas's,, each store's "dead animal zoo" is unique .. at our store here in Reno we have a "big 5" display.. that wolf/ musk ox display is very cool!!! That 2nd place must be collective with all the stores..

Dead animal zoo, now that's funny and never thought of it that way but you're exactly right!

Originally Posted by vash

i dont get too excited with those scenes.

some guy recently put up a blog about killing a black wolf. he said Cabelas offered him $10k for the animal. they wanted it in a display.

sheeshh $10k? i would drive the carcass there myself.

The did have an 800lbs. Black bear that was some kind of record, I think the largest ever taken in Pa. and the 2nd largest anywhere. And "harvested", (love that word), illegally. Borrowed from the state.

Originally Posted by azasadny

Nice shotgun!! David (Targa911s) will let you know all about it and what your options are

Yeah I'm hoping Dave chimes in. If not I'll PM him.

[weseeeee]

That's a cool gun. I've always wanted a double barrel shotgun. I'm not sure why because I don't hunt, I've just always liked them...Enjoy it.

[Jim Bremner]

So how short are you going to chop the barrels?

[Jeff Higgins]

It's actually "Baker", not "Barker". If it's really that old, it's a "pre-Folsom" gun, prior to Baker being sold to Folsom. It's also very possible that it has Damascus barrels, which I think they continued to offer on these guns until the teens at least, maybe even into the '20's. Is it marked "Fluid Steel" or anything at all like that? There were a couple of other names used for non-Damascus barrels as well, I just can't remember all of them.

Anyhoo, if it's Damascus, it's likely best to keep it as a wall hanger. Many Damascus barrels, especially the lower grade ones, have weakened with age due to rusting between the layers. Lots of debate on this one regarding the relative safety of these barrels - maybe if one looked absolutely flawless both inside and out, it might be safe to shoot with very low pressure loads.

[Buckterrier]

I don't hunt either Weseee, but enjoy spoons.
Jim, I was going to go real short SBS short or 18" like a coach gun.
Jeff, after a little further investigating I think it is a Folsom. The 4 digit serial number ends with an F. Which would make it worth less, (which is fine), but also better barrel material?

[Jim Bremner]

18" overall? damn!

[targa911S]

sorry I'm a little late to the party here. Jeff has given you good info. I would be a bit concerned as to the method of bluing used on the barrels. If hot blued ..bad...if slow rust blued...proper. A wealth of info here; History of the Baker Guns » Baker Gun Web Site - The Guns of William H. Baker

From the pics it looks good. Now there were versions of this gun known as "black beauties" and the side plates as well as the fore end iron were blued. The case "hardening " is still there. The case "colors" are fragile and fade easily. These plates look to have been blued when the gun was refurbed. To re-case color it you would be looking at around $500 just for the annealing and re-casing. This would not count disassembly and re-assembly of the locks and the action. I don't know what you paid for this gun but I would hope that what we have just added up here for casing is more than you paid for it. I would really like a closer look at the barrels especially the flats on the bottom of the breeches to determine whether it is nitro steel or damascus steel. The "leaders" were listed as "twist steel" in the original catalog, but I have seen many with nitro barrels in my travels. If it has nitro barrels yes you can shoot it with low pressure loads. Available here Polywad - Shotgun Shell Developer and Manufacturer - (800) 998-0669 These are 5000 - 7000 psi loads made for older guns like yours.
Bear in mind that off the shelf ammunition in that guns day was 5000- 7000 psi. Todays off the shelf ammunition is as high as 21000 psi. You may not blow the barrels up , but at the least you put a ton of pressure on the wood and on the barrel lug, and all the internal and mating surfaces. Quickly the gun will loosen up or go "off face" as we say in the biz. At the very least the stock will crack at the wrist as a result of the sideplates being slammed into the rear of the lock opening at pressure it was never meant for. It is a common break> I see it all the time on sidelock guns. Now add in years of oil soaking in the wood making it spongy and you have a broken gun. None of this is good of course. Send me pics of the flats and some good close ups of the area under the fore end wood, so I may be able to tell what type of barrels you have. If you are in my area anytime soon bring it with you and lets take a good look at her. You can come to my house if you like as I am not always at the shop. I hope this info has been helpful. I'm hoping for you that it is a HD Folsom marketed gun, that would give you "fluid" or "armor" steel barrels which are nitro proofed. Still you would need to shoot the vintager loads in it.

[Jeff Higgins]

If it's a Folsom, it's "new" enough that it would not have Damascus barrels, which is good news if you wanted a shooter. Folsom did start again with serial number 1 (which explains the four digit number on yours), and did in fact put an "F" before or after (they did both) the number.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

18" overall? damn!

Well THAT will get you in trouble......fed minimum is 18" for barrels on a shot gun 16" on a rifle and 27" LOA. Now put down the hack saw.

[Buckterrier]

Thanks David and Jeff for all the info. I'll do that David. I'll shoot you off an email. Yeah I paid less than the cost to have it case hardened so no go there. I'd just like to shoot it occasionally and have it for home defense, hence cutting the barrels back.
And Jim, cut the barrels to 18"!!
Although these are pretty cool



What do you think about hacking it up like this? I know $200.00 NFA stamp etc. I've heard you can't hit the broad side of a barn with them but they as sure look mean as hell.

[targa911S]

You aren't planning on cutting the Baker are you? That shorty in the pic looks like a stevens, and I'm ok with that but cutting the Baker?? Kinda sacrilegious...it's your gun but that's my opinion. I only cut them off by request or if the gun is junk otherwise. Are sawn offs accurate? Hell it's a shotgun and it is now a cylinder bore. That is about as spread out as it gets, depending on the shot cup in the shell. Pattern one. I think you will be surprised. For home defense?? Sure. You shoot em further away than 15 feet or so yer gonna have a lot of "splaining" to do. Also a big mess to clean up.