It's started - Exodus from CA

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

New York holds the distinction of the highest taxed state. I happen to live in the highest taxed county in it (Westchester). Where Americans Pay Most In Property Taxes - Forbes.com

And we don't get the weather that CA has, either, although we get a nice solid 4 seasons. Born and raised here, I've seen a fair bit of the country and found it's hard to slow down from the NY mentality. But retirement would be a different story. $18k in annual property taxes on a primary dwelling would clobber a nest-egg, and who knows what that number will be in 20 years when I retire.

That article is so far off in its numbers, I can't believe it. If $8000 a year in taxes on a 700,000$ house in ny is high, sign me up...

In cook county Illinois a 1mm house is about 28,000$ per year in taxes. In Wisconsin, it's about 15,000$.

A dinky 200,000$ house in the Chicago suburbs is 10,000$

The article states that the national average is 1100$???? On what planet?

Bo

[Rick Lee]

My taxes are $1500 a year on a $330k house. My folks in NJ sold there main house for around $500k and taxes were $11k then.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Funny that someone would bust an illegal using someone else's social security number. Billions are paid into the SS system every year by people who will never collect a penny from it. Makes zero sense to bust them.

Nation & World | Illegal immigrants pay Social Security tax, won't benefit | Seattle Times Newspaper

hey man, let em' use your card and number and when they are done with it, then someone else will continue. This way, they can continue to pay into "Our" system. Heck sell your number, make a few bucks toward your hot rod motor rebuild, I am sure they will be happy to buy it. Am I reading this wrong?

[Rufblackbird]

Originally Posted by SeanPizzle

California has the best climate in the country. Add to that the natural beauty and draw of activities, and there will always be demand for folks to live here.

Having grown up in Hawaii, I had to chuckle a bit when I read this, but I guess it really depends on what part of CA you're talking about, since the weather in San Diego differs dramatically from the weather in Sacramento, not to mention it depends on what kind of weather/climate each person likes.

I lived in the bay area (Santa Clara, to be exact) for two years and hated every minute of it, so we moved to a place that was better...for us. Bottom line is, if you like where you live, stay. If you don't, move. No need to bash other states, and really, defending your state isn't gonna make that much of a difference anyway.

[Noah930]

Funny that someone would bust an illegal using someone else's social security number. Billions are paid into the SS system every year by people who will never collect a penny from it. Makes zero sense to bust them.

If people are willing to use your SS# to forge a work identity, what other illegal things do you think they'd be willing to do with that information? If having multiple illegals use your SS# for non-gainful employment is such a great thing because it pads your personal SS contributions come retirement time, why not share your SS# and real name on the internet with the rest of the world?

[flatbutt]

I just heard a report that NJ leads the nation in population loss. But I have no link to a source.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Noah930

If people are willing to use your SS# to forge a work identity, what other illegal things do you think they'd be willing to do with that information? If having multiple illegals use your SS# for non-gainful employment is such a great thing because it pads your personal SS contributions come retirement time, why not share your SS# and real name on the internet with the rest of the world?

Silly silly stuff. Sharing my SS# on the internet would not selectively provide it to "illegals." Entire industries -- like meat packing -- have run entirely on "illegal" labor. Providing SS# is a condition of employment.

"Illegals" don't get SS benefits. http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/illegal.asp

[techweenie]

People are still coming in to California -- the record price for a home ($75 million) in Malibu was just paid by a Russian immigrant. I think we'll be just fine here. But I encourage those who don't like it to live somewhere else.

[fintstone]

California is great if you can buy a $75M house...but that is sorta pricey for most. If I were very poor or very rich, I would love to live there. It seems that the middle class has a better quality of life elsewhere (other than weather and possibly recreation).

[Seahawk]

I grew up in on a small ranch in the coastal mountains above Pt. Mugu in the 60's and 70's. My Dad was an avid outdoors man so we got out quite a bit. I have camped, fished, hunted, surfed, kayaked and hiked the entire state a number of times, desert, alpine, foothill and all climes in between.

I spent a month every summer with my relatives in the Bay Area, first with my grandmother and GF in Hayward for a week (my GF owner an auto repair shop in Oakland and I went to work with him everyday, which I loved), then my Great Uncle in the Sunset District, 23rd Street of Lincoln, then to my Uncle on his house boat in Marlin, lastly on to my other Great Uncles ranch outside of Stockton.

I went to college in California and was a white watering rafting guide/kayak instructor from 76-81, running up and down the Sierras, from the Kern to Cherry Creek, the Kalamath and all points in between.

My first tour of duty was flying out of NAS North Island in San Diego, nearly six years, from 1983 until late 88, of uninterrupted fun and joy that being single in SoCal affords.

California has changed mostly due to the influx of people, but it remains a wonderland if you know where to look. I could not imagine growing up in better circumstances. Like any large state, there is no homogeneity: the cast of characters in different parts of the state are not even in the same orbit let alone the same frame of mind. Put California on the east coast and the pattern would repeat: the Beach Music devotees on the beaches of SC to the doyens of Long Island would all be "Californians".

[KNS]

Interesting thread. Just yesterday a co-worker and I were talking about growing up in California (both of us born and raised). Like Seahawk, we loved growing up there and both missed many things about the state but agreed we'd never move back.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by fintstone

California is great if you can buy a $75M house...but that is sorta pricey for most. If I were very poor or very rich, I would love to live there. It seems that the middle class has a better quality of life elsewhere (other than weather and possibly recreation).

There is a huge middle class here, huge. They just don't make the news headlines. A bunch of quiet, hard working people like the rest of us.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by techweenie

People are still coming in to California -- the record price for a home ($75 million) in Malibu was just paid by a Russian immigrant. I think we'll be just fine here. But I encourage those who don't like it to live somewhere else.

Yes, and they are buying homes at the lower end as well as middle class areas.

[Noah930]

techweenie, do you actually read anything other people write and try to see where they're coming from? Or is everything just a knee jerk reaction for you?

[campbellcj]

I was born in and have lived in the L.A. area my entire life. Obviously, there is a lot to like here and nearly all of my family and friends are here, plus my wife and I both operate small businesses here (which are both transportable to some degree). We live very comfortably but have high incomes and do not feel 'wealthy' given taxes and the extreme cost of living. My wife and I are educated and probably had what some would call 'privileged' upbringings but were not able to afford our first home until we were 35, and we had some help even then. As mentioned above, property taxes, utilities and other routine home upkeep are now nearly equal to our mortgage payment, and are going up continuously. Food is also getting very expensive (everywhere, certainly) -- I have not added it up precisely but $1,200/month to feed our household would be in the ballpark.

I have traveled all over the US, to perhaps 40 out of the 50 states, as well as internationally a bit. I've always said that if I ever find somewhere I would rather be than here, I would seriously consider pulling-up roots or at least planting some new ones i.e., land or 2nd home, for the future. So far, this is still the place for me.

[Rtrorkt]

$16,131 in taxes on an 1828 sq ft house in Mill Valley. Need I say more? Taxes on a 4500 sf house in Richmond, VA, $3500 per year. And I ask what more am I getting in Marin County? Better roads? No. Better schools? slightly better. Better response from police and fire? Not a chance. Better public transportation? No. Guess I am paying for the privilege of living in great weather.

[techweenie]

Rtrorkt, go back to the chart on page 6 and you'll see that a chunk of Federal taxes paid in CA go to VA. Local taxes have to make up the difference. If CA wasn't shouldering the burden (along with NY, DE, NJ, MN, etc), the property taxes could be lower. On the other hand, it's likely you could sell your house in Mill Valley and buy 3 4500 sq ft houses in VA.

[Rtrorkt]

techweenie, i was not talking about my income tax which is significantly lower here in VA than in CA. I get that CA is sending more than it gets back to the Feds. I was simply talking about my local property taxes. That is all local. I suppose you might argue that the local taxes are high because the state is unable to support due to sending money away to Washington but none the less, everything is triple in taxes.

Prop 13 basically upset the normal flow of money. In most states, as I understand it, 1/3 of revenue comes from income tax, 1/3 from sales tax and 1/3 from property tax. In CA with prop 13, the property tax is less than 20% of the budget due to the rules. Those rules say your property tax can never go up once you own your house. And I know why, with folks getting taxed out of their homes. However, the burden then fall disproportionally on new home buyers, like me. The previous owners of my house paid less than 1/2 of what I am paying. The system ends up with a two class system.

And the politicians have done nothing to reset their spending habits to coincide with the revenue reality. There is the same us against them Repubs and Dems as in DC.

Fundamentally CA has a seriously flawed tax system. The burden will continue to fall on the middle class who frankly should protest.

[techweenie]

Yes, Prop 13 is partly responsible for the imbalance, but if assessors keep property values current, the disparity between new and legacy owners should never be 2:1.

As for income tax vs. property tax, well, it all goes to pay for something. Roads, high speed rail, education monies, etc. if paid for with revenue returned from DC. That is money that doesn't have to be paid from state revenues.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Rtrorkt

Prop 13 basically upset the normal flow of money. In most states, as I understand it, 1/3 of revenue comes from income tax, 1/3 from sales tax and 1/3 from property tax. In CA with prop 13, the property tax is less than 20% of the budget due to the rules. Those rules say your property tax can never go up once you own your house. And I know why, with folks getting taxed out of their homes. However, the burden then fall disproportionally on new home buyers, like me. The previous owners of my house paid less than 1/2 of what I am paying. The system ends up with a two class system.

The taxes on the house I bought in SoCal are about 4x what the previous owner paid. He bought the house new in '65. The taxes are on par with what I pay in DC on my condo, and noticeably less than what I would be paying if I still lived in Northern VA. One of my colleagues in NoVA commented to me that as home prices fell during the home price burst, the millage rate increased to hold property taxes, in dollars, at least constant. Now isn't that special?