It's started - Exodus from CA

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by speeder

You have that right, Matt. London and New York City are even more expensive places to raise a family in the style we are accustomed to. But there is a big difference between saying that a place is expensive and saying that it sucks and where you live is better. That's the problem I have with these tired-ass threads from flat-staters bashing CA.

Denis, I don't ever recall saying that CA sucked. Here was my first post on this thread:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

If you don't think CA is expensive just don't bother pricing a house, utilities, gas, food, taxes, entertainment, etc in the midwest. You'll sleep better at night. You guys have awesome weather, but I'd rather be warm in my affordable 6 br/3.5 ba affordably priced home with the extra income to do fun things with my family and allow my wife to stay home with my kids. Everything is a trade-off in life, but I often wonder how my CA friends make that math work.

I don't think I said anything out of line or untrue. BTW, I didn't start the thread. But I am done posting on it, because educated civil discourse has gone way out the window.

[diverdan]

I had the time of my life in California, L.A. area. There was everything to do at world class levels. The weather is the best in the U. S., maybe the world. Anything you want. Los angeles was great but,,,,,,,,,,,,,as one of my friends put it, "So great that it was choking on ists own success." That was back in the early eighties.

I moved out. Don't regret it. Family was undisputable trump. So, I love the seasons and have learned to put up with winters that are too long. The fresh water of our Great Lakes and thousands of small lakes played a big part too. And the housing thing. I bought 2.5 acres with an old 50' tin can to live in for $3500. As I got the cash, I built indoor storage for almost 50 small cars including a drive in basement under a doublewide. So, the car hobby works, but each area has its benefits and I believe in different horses for different courses.

Miss friends and the beach in the winter. Don't have the same activities, but I don't spend so many hours driving, trying to do it all.

Diverdan





Diverdan

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by speeder

There are people who belong in Texas and Missouri. I'm not one of them. Live wherever you want.

+288(or is +2?)

Its one of the nice things about the USA, different state regulations, and you don't have to give up your citizenship and immigrate to move to different regulations.

No place is perfect, you can't have everything. I'll take living in S.C., and having rusted junk all over my neighbors yard, several of the folks on pelican would be up in arms over it. I prefer to live in a place where I'm left alone. Others like it well organized with rules and people in other people's business if they don't keep it nice.

An issue, is people who move into these cheaper states/locations, and try to raise the area up to where they came from. Voting for more and more spending, when those that have lived here their whole lives are very happy with how things are.(Christmas day, I heard gun shots most of the afternoon, that would greatly disturb a lot of people, but I like it that way, even though I don't shoot and don't own, its nice to know there are people within several miles who do.)

[motion]

Someone needs to make an interactive graph that gives you sliders to adjust various aspects of quality of life: weather, taxes, outdoor opportunities, income, health, RE prices, etc. As you adjust the sliders up and down, it shows which states fit your requirements.

That would be so cool!

[daepp]

I've lived in CA for 49 years, and I've seen it change. Not the weather of course, it's only gotten better with the lack of smog these days.

But we are choking on over-regulation - CARB< AQMD< CalOSHA... How many others?

Denis - I think you don't get out much to the other areas of the state and see what Sacramento has done. The "industry" gets lots of favors and has not suffered as much, but I've heard that the majority of the new television shows are being shot out of state. LA is having a hard tie holding on to film as well.

I love CA - my friends and family are here. But I'm starting to wonder if my kids will ever find work here. They are being educated out of state, and I really wonder if they'll be able to make it here in a few years. And as for retirement, I hope you have a good one. As for me, I sure hope to retire here, but I really wonder about $500 electric bills, and gasoline higher than 48 other states, half of Mexico now living here, and burden of excessive income taxes and property taxes. My property taxes will hit $6K soon - how do you retire with expenses like that?

I love Newport and LA and Josua Tree, and DV and Yosemite and Big Sur and.... But as stated in the original post, someone close to me - educated and a big earner - left despite all this. And I hear this a lot. I think you will see much more of this in the future from those who can.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

Uh, you dont get out of Pacific Heights much, do you?

You live in Specific Whites??

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by daepp

I've lived in CA for 49 years, and I've seen it change. Not the weather of course, it's only gotten better with the lack of smog these days.

But we are choking on over-regulation - CARB

Isn't that why the smog has decreased over recent years?

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by a911a

Only stupid people that don't understand possessive words do that.

Actually, California is a there, so they can sell a house there.

Thing is - if they sell a house there - some one bought it, so its not really an exodus. When you can't sell your house in Cali - that is when its a true exodus.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

California is horrible.

jim,

i have homes on both coasts too. i love charlotte, nc and love san diego.
I am happy

pcb

[scottmandue]

This thread went down the pooper fast!

I will put this as my last post on the subject,

For better or worse my job has sent me all over the states and the good lesson I learned is people all over the U S of A are pretty much the same mix, some smart, some stupid, some friendly, some not... no matter where you are.

It is free country, live where you want.

I'm outta here.

[PorscheGAL]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

I'll take living in S.C., and having rusted junk all over my neighbors yard, several of the folks on pelican would be up in arms over it.

I'll keep my pile of "rusted junk" and I'll be happy to call you neighbor.



I like California and love San Fransciso. I found none of bigotry shown in this thread about Southerners when traveling there. Gentleman, you can say what you want, but you do not represent anyone I have meet in person there. Also, the Porsche community is strong and vibrant in California and I hope it continues.

Stay strong California!

By the way, it will be 81 and sunny here tomorrow.
Notice the gas can outside of the garage; that is prop to keep our redneck image up in the neighborhood.

[Maxim S]

The weather gets brought up frequently, but it's a pretty small fraction of why I like living in CA. For me, it's all about what's here. A thriving car culture with tons of tracks and other great places to drive, tons of shops to get parts and get work done, and an enthusiast community for whatever you own. Tons of people into whatever else you might be interested in. Access to snowsports without having to shovel your driveway all winter. Huge ethnic communities means there's awesome food all over the place, and much of it is stuff you won't find at all in many parts of the country. Great small businesses everywhere you look. (Not as many here in Sac, though.)

So, what sucks? Rent and drugs. The former is the price you pay for the good stuff. The latter, unfortunately, is going to get harder and harder to avoid as the tide turns toward legalization in more and more states. The state I'd most like to live in outside of CA is CO, and they've made it even more legal than we have.

There are other places that offer many of the same things CA does, but they're even more expensive to live in than LA and have drawbacks of their own. (NYC and Tokyo are standouts, but both make having a car really difficult, and the latter obviously has a major language and culture barrier to contend with.)

By the way, on vehicle regulation - I don't disagree with it, but I think the way it's done doesn't make sense. Right now, I can have a pristinely modified car that won't pass smog simply because some part on it isn't approved. Registering a kit car is nearly impossible. On the other hand, some piece of crap rusty deathtrap can be on the road as long as it doesn't run any dirtier than it did when new. I wouldn't be opposed to something like the British MoT system, where cars are thoroughly inspected, and it doesn't matter what it is or what's in it, as long as it's safe and doesn't pollute beyond the standards of its year of manufacture.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Thing is - if they sell a house there - some one bought it, so its not really an exodus. When you can't sell your house in Cali - that is when its a true exodus.

The numbers need a little more digging. CA's population has been increasing even with more people moving out than moving in. That's because of the birth rate, which is higher among the illegal population than the native population. So CA is losing taxpayers while gaining taxtakers. It's not like any of the babies born there will be paying taxes there until they're at least 18, more likely 25. So you can swap all the houses you want. There will always be families looking for houses. The problem is the delta between number of taxpayers vs. taxtakers.

[RWebb]

you think illegal aliens don't pay taxes, rick???

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by RWebb

you think illegal aliens don't pay taxes, rick???

I didn't say that. But they certainly pay a lot less taxes than the natives pay, while using up far more services. I'm gonna make the wild guess that none of the non-English speaking landscapers and cleaning crews I see around here every day pay a dime in income or even payroll taxes. Everyone pays sales taxes, of course.

[ZAMIRZ]

Yeah, but they also get compensated less for doing the same amount of work that someone who is legal would get. The economics of hiring an illegal immigrant to do your gardening hinges on that.

[Rick Lee]

No one who is legal would do most of that work, no matter the pay. I could offer $20 per hour for landscaping and I guarantee not one neighborhood teen would reply. Anyway, perhaps a subject for another thread. But illegals are a permanent underclass with little to no upward mobility or even desire to assimilate. Doesn't go so much for second generation, but definitely so for first generation. Since CA has the bulk of them and they tend to have a lot of kids, get used to it. It ain't gonna change with amnesty. It's a cultural thing.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by ZAMIRZ

Yeah, but they also get compensated less for doing the same amount of work that someone who is legal would get. The economics of hiring an illegal immigrant to do your gardening hinges on that.

My tree guy is legal. His price is about the same compare to an illegal which was about 200 bucks difference. This was a 2500 clean up / cut job. The guys that have a language barrier are competing against each others so the pricing should be about the same legal or not.

Illegals takes checks, have bank accounts but do not pay into the system. What tax, if they do not have SSC number. The only time they pay is when they use someone's ssc #. My mom's retired, but someone had stolen her number somehow so they can work. Luckily, my wife's college buddy runs the social security investigative office in Los Angeles. Busted him at work.

[techweenie]

Funny that someone would bust an illegal using someone else's social security number. Billions are paid into the SS system every year by people who will never collect a penny from it. Makes zero sense to bust them.

Nation & World | Illegal immigrants pay Social Security tax, won't benefit | Seattle Times Newspaper

[Rick Lee]

I'm quite sure many of them will collect - either through stolen IDs or an amnesty. That is, until SS dries up, which it most certainly will.