It's started - Exodus from CA

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Burnin' oil

More to my liking.

exactly. the traffic level shown on the cameras i posted will be the same all the way from san diego to north of ventura. 4 hours, IME to do that trip. at night.

[daepp]

Webb - I'm curious - what do you do for a living?

[RWebb]

Wyoming might not be more to your liking after a few years - esp. in the winter. I'd recommend Laramie over Cheyenne any day, and then there are real holes... like Casper or worse.

I have seen a nice poster in one of the interstate towns, maybe Rawlins, that showed a pic of clogged Calif. freeways and a big print saying something along the lines of "We aren't like Calif. and we like it that way."

But the state would love for people to move there... it's lost a lot of popn.


daepp - I am retired.

[Burnin' oil]

I lived in Laramie and would move back in a heart beat but can't overcome inertia.

[Hugh R]

I don't think I mischaracterized you're statements. If so, tell me how? Firing up a 65 HP standby generator for 30 minutes adds very little to the diesel particulate load to an environment. Especially since the "risk" is based on a one-in-a- million excess cancer risk model. And that "risk assessment" has a least a 100,000 excess risk factor for uncertainly built into it. In other words, one in a billion excess cancer risk. Meaning about six people in the World "might' get cancer from that activity.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by nynor

exactly. the traffic level shown on the cameras i posted will be the same all the way from san diego to north of ventura. 4 hours, IME to do that trip. at night.

Not sure your point - that one of the highest concentrations of cars and people on the planet has bad traffic? I shall alert the media.

SD to Ventura is 3 hours with zero traffic. And having lived in both LA and SF, I can say that SF traffic is worse. That doesn't mean LA traffic is fun but it certainly shouldn't be a surprise and there are plenty of other urban areas that are as bad depending on the details. If you know what you're doing you can generally get around LA without much problem. If you don't know what you're doing, you're screwed.

[motion]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I'm gonna make the wild guess you are a MT resident, so you can live in CA up to 180 days per year and be exempt from a lot of their BS (as Hugh plans to do in a few years). You probably don't pay income tax to CA and you probably buy as many of your consumer items as possible in MT, since there's no sales tax there. Again, you have enough FU money to exempt yourself from so much of the BS in CA. But for the working stiffs who can't afford to "officially" reside in a low/no tax state, CA is an extremely expensive place to live. I have been called by more than one CA Pelican, asking me to let them register their car to my address here and even to get them hi-cap mags that they can't legally get in CA. Those aren't issues for you, but for the folks stuck in CA because of work or family, they do cut into quality of life.

Pretty much nailed it. But, I still don't believe people live somewhere because they have to. They always have a choice. It just takes a little risk and motivation to change things up a bit.

[nynor]

it sure is fun to watch you guys defend kalifornia.

nostatic, if it was four hours to do that trip at night, what is it like during the day? my point is that the place sucks. it is that simple. no need to call the media. this is, of course, my opinion. YMMV.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by motion

.....................................But, I still don't believe people live somewhere because they have to. They always have a choice. It just takes a little risk and motivation to change things up a bit.

Until you factor in young family.

OTOH, I've been to many states and lived briefly in 2 other than my home state. It just doesn't work for me. I'm a victim of the living near roots syndrome. I live a half mile from where I was born. I visit the parks and neighborhoods of my childhood almost every day.

I'm comfortable.

[MT930]

Originally Posted by motion

Pretty much nailed it. But, I still don't believe people live somewhere because they have to. They always have a choice. It just takes a little risk and motivation to change things up a bit.

^^^^^
I Agree live where it suits you "Where ever you go there you are"

CA sure has cheap Booze that's A+ in my book.

Most of my friends in MT left CA 20 years ago. 80% of my street are Ex CA residents

But they visit CA often. I always have them bring back a handle or two.

CA has a lot to offer, I just like low density living.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Until you factor in young family.

OTOH, I've been to many states and lived briefly in 2 other than my home state. It just doesn't work for me. I'm a victim of the living near roots syndrome. I live a half mile from where I was born. I visit the parks and neighborhoods of my childhood almost every day.

I'm comfortable.

exactly. i'd be out of utah, if it weren't for the support of my in-laws with my son (four years old). i know i would make at least 25% more money/year where i want to go, with a decrease in cost of living of at least 15%. the pollution here is at least as bad as so-cal, the traffic sucks, the drivers suck, the politics suck, the religion bias is nearly suffocating. in the end, it comes down to the support network of my wife's family for our reason to stay.

i've lived in seven states and worked, on the road, in dozens. i've passed through every single state in the union (all 57 ) except alaska and north dakota.

anyway, peace out. i loved kalifornia, when i was a child. i've been there as an adult and it is not the utopia it is advertised.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Not sure your point - that one of the highest concentrations of cars and people on the planet has bad traffic? I shall alert the media.

SD to Ventura is 3 hours with zero traffic. And having lived in both LA and SF, I can say that SF traffic is worse. That doesn't mean LA traffic is fun but it certainly shouldn't be a surprise and there are plenty of other urban areas that are as bad depending on the details. If you know what you're doing you can generally get around LA without much problem. If you don't know what you're doing, you're screwed.

This year I have driven 3x San Marcos to Goleta slightly under 3 hours. Timing is everything - depart SM in the 10 AM window. Straight up the 5 to the 101. Splitting hairs yes but as you said folks who know their surroundings can make a go of it.

[speeder]

I don't think that anywhere is perfect, or "utopia", but where I live is perfect for me and a lot of other people I know. I've actually gone full circle from hating L.A., (even moving away and vowing never to return many years ago), to completely loving it again. I never fell out of love with the state, though. It's the greatest state by any rational measure and by an extremely wide margin. I just can't imagine being stuck next to someone on an airplane that hates the state of California, that would be some miserable, pathetic and clueless twat.

There was a time, many years ago when I first moved to L.A., when I found fault with everything here and constantly compared it to the place I was from. The place I was from became perfect as soon as I left it, completely ignoring the reasons I left of course. When I finally accepted this place as it is and looked for the good instead of the bad, everything changed. It's the same as being in an adult relationship with a person, you accept them as they are and focus on the positive or leave them and move along. In CA., and in L.A. IMO, there is an enormous amount of positive to focus on.

If you are not a good city person and creative at least in terms of living a good life, you will not like it here. Big cities chew people up and spit them out who are not suited to them. L.A. does it a lot slower than NYC because of the weather and terrain. But it's still expensive and competitive in a way that smaller places are not. The opportunities here are so much greater, though. The doors that open are so much larger, generally speaking.

There's an old saying that when someone is telling you that their city has an opera, you know you're in a small place. The great cities of the world have treasures and and resources that run incredibly deep plus a volume of wealth that is staggering. It's hard for some people to comprehend how much goes on here.

[daepp]

Ok Mr Webb, what did you do before you retired?

[KNS]

Originally Posted by daepp

Ok Mr Webb, what did you do before you retired?

He was a scientist - you may have missed it, he's only mentioned it like a hundred times...

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by motion

Pretty much nailed it. But, I still don't believe people live somewhere because they have to. They always have a choice. It just takes a little risk and motivation to change things up a bit.

This is true. I can see my kids and grandkids every few days, or I can live somewhere that the insane are not running the asylum. If my primary motivation were financial, I would not be here.

Problem is, there are far too many that would generate a lot of tax revenue for the state that do not have family ties here, or the ties are not strong enough to prevent them from pulling up stakes. People are still coming here, but they come for the generous welfare programs, not for the business opportunities.

Dealing with workman's comp here is such a nightmare that I refuse to do so.

I have a few patients that use heavy equipment for their business. The choice is quit and sell your equipment out of state, or spend millions for new equipment and the continued privilege of beating your head against the wall.

The one plus is that when I leave, think of all the cool old cars that I will be able to pick up for cheap because they can't be registered in California any longer.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Firing up a 65 HP standby generator for 30 minutes adds very little to the diesel particulate load to an environment.

I guess that is one of the really GREAT things about California - your emergencies only last 30 minutes!

I should move there.

[varmint]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I guess that is one of the really GREAT things about California - your emergencies only last 30 minutes!

I should move there.

i was there for a couple riots and quakes. you really should move to hollywood so you can experience what happens to a city when it goes several days without power. or water, or police.