Please explain to me "My first gun."

[berettafan]

not to mention texting is not very professional.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by berettafan

not to mention texting is not very professional.

You must not do business with anyone under 30... tons and tons of business is being conducted on phones, with texts....

[Racerbvd]

What they are really saying is that liberals shouldn't be parents, as they aren't responsible enough or capably of saying NO to a child and their minds aren't strong enough to not be be able to resist non-mass-media advertising.

Enabling people who make bad decisions shouldn't be rewarded and punishing those who do make good decisions for the betterment of losers who want the Gov to take care of them..

not to mention texting is not very professional.

At the Track or other loud venues my work takes me too, it is a way to communicate when you can't hear the person next to you, or a phone.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

You must not do business with anyone under 30... tons and tons of business is being conducted on phones, with texts....

Out of several hundred clients i'd guess a quarter are under 30 and quite a few more are in their 30's. my clients can choose their method of corresponding with me but i doubt many would be impressed if i initiated actual business conversations via text. for one thing it's tedious to type things out on a small phone and for another it's not as easy to collate entire conversations into record keeping systems. it can also be intrusive.

[winders]

Originally Posted by berettafan

my opinion is the better good is served at the cost of convenience.

That's just crazy......you obviously don't need to use your phone when moving in a vehicle. That may be your reality but it is not the reality for everyone.

You realize the same logic could be (and is) used to take your guns away, don't you?

Scott

[berettafan]

keeping a firearm in my home is not a matter of convenience.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Out of several hundred clients i'd guess a quarter are under 30 and quite a few more are in their 30's. my clients can choose their method of corresponding with me but i doubt many would be impressed if i initiated actual business conversations via text. for one thing it's tedious to type things out on a small phone and for another it's not as easy to collate entire conversations into record keeping systems. it can also be intrusive.

Why are you suddenly saying 'initiated' - there was nothing about 'initiated' in your original supposition. I suppose it is because you suddenly realized that lots of business is done via texts.... but now you need to quantify your statement.

Again lots and lots of business is being done every day via texts -

But I do like 'the better good is served' - have these socialist thoughts often?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Sorry, not persuaded. Marketing a toy-like gun to 4-10 year olds -- as a toy -- is wrong. Apparently the advertising has been pulled as a result of social media pressure.

You keep mentioning the "as a toy" angle. I can assure you, in a lifetime of immersion in the firearms world, I have never seen anyone present a firearm to a kid "as a toy". You are, again, speaking from a position of ignorance. I've asked you repeatedly for your personal experiences in this realm, and you have steadfastly avoided answering those inquiries. That, coupled with the rhetoric you have spewed on this thread, states very clearly that you have no experience in this regard. Your "as a toy" position is a fantasy of your own making. You have nothing to support that position. It is simply your opinion, arrived at to further demonize gun owners, and clearly has no basis in fact or actual experience. You are attempting to dramatize this.

Originally Posted by techweenie

As for the process to purchase a gun for a child, the majority of states waive any paperwork for gun show purchases. So it's really no different from buying an action figure.

Let's deconstruct this for a moment. How many parents, casually looking for your "toy" for their child, are going to go to a gun show to look for it? How many non-shooting, "toy" shopping parents, will even think of that, and then go to the trouble to track down a gun show and do that? Why on earth would they bother, when the WalMart on the corner stocks them? You are grasping at straws.

Your argument becomes extremely incongruous on this point. Nobody goes to a gun show to get in some "toy" shopping for their kids. The folks attending gun shows tend to be at least somewhat into, well, - guns. They are enthusiasts, with a bit more interest and knowledge than the John Q. Public that would be likely to view these rifles as your "toys". In other words, it is extremely unlikely that your ignorant, ill-informed public that may actually see these rifles as "toys" would ever stumble across a gun show, or think of searching out a gun show, at which to purchase them - that's way too much trouble when they are readily available at the local sporting goods store. Conversely, it is equally likely that anyone purchasing one at a gun show will know full well that it is no "toy".

As a related asside, any licensed dealer selling at any gun show in the land still sells under the same rules they do when in their shop. Same forms, same background checks. Now while I cannot vouch for all gun clubs, mine - the Washington Arms Collectors - conducts, as a requirement for membership, the very same background check required to purchase a fiream at a dealer. At our shows, we can only sell to or buy from other currently active members. We actually have people arrested that are caught violating this rule.

It is my understanding that many other clubs accross the nation follow these same rules. I have been to gun shows in virtually every western state, and many in the mid west. At each and every show I have ever attended, the hosting club has had the same "members only" rule on firearms sales and purchases. Those are my first hand experiences with this supposed "gun show loophole" - it is really no more than a media/political talking point, aimed at the ignorant and ill-informed. Like you. So, I'll ask you the same sort of question that has so far gone unanswered - what are your experiences with this? I think I already know the answer...

Tech, face it - you are arguing from a position of emotion and ignorance. I don't expect you will ever change that position, and you are certainly free to cling to it. The difference between you and I on this point, however, is that I have lived a lifetime immersed in the world of firearms. My opinions are based not only upon my own experiences, but also upon the collective experiences of a wonderful community - one quite unlike any other in this country, or anywhere else on earth. You can continue to chip at us from the outside looking in - everyone is entitled to their voice, their opinion. You need to understand, however, just how foolish you look, so stubbornly clinging to you emotionally based, ignorant opinions. That (and again, I understand you say it is not your intention), and do not try to change us. You don't have to understand us, you don't have to like us - but you have no right to try, in your emotional ignorance, to change us.

[vash]

i'm old enough to remember my mom buying me those candy cigarettes. hahahah.

now that was a splendid idea!!

as a goofy 5-year old, i had no business of owning a firearm. i got a daisy BB gun at 8 and i was a complete menace. my mom wanted me to grow up a smoker, but not a shooter..apparently. i got a real 22 at 11. and looking back, i was not the best 11 year old gun owner. i had full access to that rifle and ammo. i shot it in my backyard. idiot!!

glad i got smarter. if i had kids..i do it differently. 100% supervised. zero access without me present.

to each their own.

[foxpaws]

Actually Keystone is more concerned about the Davey Crickett Beanie Baby ending up in 'age inappropriate' children's hands then their rifles....
Note-Jeff H - having collateral like beanie babies to market your guns is marketing to children.

In their catalog - the only 'age appropriate warning' comes with the Davey Crickett Beanie Baby - on page 4, the rest of the catalog - i.e. the rifles, don't say 'parental supervision suggested' or imply at all that a responsible adult should be around... but gosh darn, that dangerous beanie baby has its warning right next to it printed in the catalog...

edit - So, I guess you could imply that Keystone markets toys more responsibly than it markets real firearms.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Actually Keystone is more concerned about the Davey Crickett Beanie Baby ending up in 'age inappropriate' children's hands then their rifles....

In their catalog - the only 'age appropriate warning' comes with the Davey Crickett Beanie Baby - on page 4, the rest of the catalog - i.e. the rifles, don't say 'parental supervision suggested' or imply at all that a responsible adult should be around... but gosh darn, that dangerous beanie baby has its warning right next to it printed in the catalog...

Again, the CHILD can not buy a gun, it takes an adult to do that, what about that don't you understand.. Maybe you should start hanging out with a smarter, better class of people than those coke whores you enable.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by techweenie

...Sure, parental control makes everything okay. But how many of us found dad's stash of dirty magazines as a kid? You cannot provide 100% oversight to a child.

If they are kept in the gun safe with the guns jr wouldn't have access to them now would he?

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Again, the CHILD can not buy a gun, it takes an adult to do that, what about that don't you understand.. Maybe you should start hanging out with a smarter, better class of people than those coke whores you enable.

And a child cannot buy cigarettes, but that didn't stop RJ Reynolds from marketing to children. You don't seem to understand some basic marketing strategies racer, when it comes to marketing to children. There are lots of books and studies out there if you are interested in expanding your knowledge regarding how various firms market to children and why marketing to children is very effective. A good start would be Merchants of Death: The American Tobacco Industry.

However, the whole insult thing you got going - nice...

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I would agree with you save for the fact that purchasing one of these is far different from purchasing a toy. They are not sold in toy stores. One must go to a federally licensed dealer to purchase one. Yes, in a WalMart or similar large department store, they will be found all under the same roof. But we still cannot simply pluck one off the shelf, throw it in the shopping cart, and check it out with your other items. The transaction must be made at the gun counter. The transaction must be preceded by the mandatory background check through NICS. The purchaser must fill out the federal form. At the end of all of this, if it is still not clear that we are not buying a toy, there is probably little else we can do to help the situation.

Good point

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

And a child cannot buy cigarettes, but that didn't stop RJ Reynolds from marketing to children. You don't seem to understand some basic marketing strategies racer, when it comes to marketing to children. There are lots of books and studies out there if you are interested in expanding your knowledge regarding how various firms market to children and why marketing to children is very effective. A good start would be Merchants of Death: The American Tobacco Industry.

However, the whole insult thing you got going - nice...

I understand marketing, you don't understand good parenting, and there lies the problem.. Just because you and other liberals can't say no to your kids, doesn't mean everyone is a bad parent.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

You keep mentioning the "as a toy" angle. I can assure you, in a lifetime of immersion in the firearms world, I have never seen anyone present a firearm to a kid "as a toy". You are, again, speaking from a position of ignorance. I've asked you repeatedly for your personal experiences in this realm, and you have steadfastly avoided answering those inquiries. That, coupled with the rhetoric you have spewed on this thread, states very clearly that you have no experience in this regard. Your "as a toy" position is a fantasy of your own making. You have nothing to support that position. It is simply your opinion, arrived at to further demonize gun owners, and clearly has no basis in fact or actual experience. You are attempting to dramatize this.

Yeah, why would I dramatize children being killed playing with deadly toys? Makes no sense.

And you keep asking about my background. Did you read post #8 of this thread?

[flipper35]

The problem today is nobody wants to take responsibility for anything. Generally speaking.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

I understand marketing, you don't understand good parenting, and there lies the problem.. Just because you and other liberals can't say no to your kids, doesn't mean everyone is a bad parent.

Well, that'll work out well, since only liberal children will die from accidental gunshot wounds!

[winders]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

And a child cannot buy cigarettes, but that didn't stop RJ Reynolds from marketing to children. You don't seem to understand some basic marketing strategies racer, when it comes to marketing to children. There are lots of books and studies out there if you are interested in expanding your knowledge regarding how various firms market to children and why marketing to children is very effective. A good start would be Merchants of Death: The American Tobacco Industry.

Rifles are not cigarettes and comparing rifles to cigarettes is duplicitous and something only an unreasonable person would do. You are making the leap that rifles are bad just like cigarettes. That is not the case.

There is a difference between marketing a rifle designed for children to adults and children and marketing cigarettes to adults and children.

Rifles should used by children only under adult supervision. Children should never smoke cigarettes, adult supervision or not.

The bottom line here is that you think guns are evil.......so you viewpoint is tainted.

Scott

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Well, that'll work out well, since only liberal children will die from accidental gunshot wounds!

Works in Chicago.