Gas Prices

[1-ev.com]

Originally Posted by speeder

Let us know when you can jump in it and drive x-country non-stop. Electric vehicles can be great city cars, for sure.

I prefer to fly to the destination then rent limo with driver and have a fun... vs drive x-country and get tired on the way and back... sorry, It just me...

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by speeder

There are definitely taxes involved but I always heard that it was also the transportation from refinery->Chicago. That it's as far from a major refinery as you can get in a major city; the big ones are down along the gulf coast, in SoCal, Canada, etc...

There is a big BP refinery right next door in IN.

From an NPR report this past May:

"“First and foremost, we have to talk about the high taxes in Chicago,” she said. “About 70 cents on the gallon is what people pay in Chicago for gas taxes, really, really a high number, especially given the statewide average is 49 cents on the gallon.”

Those figures can fluctuate, but that means generally 70 to 90 cents for every gallon of gas pumped in Chicago goes to taxes.

For example, if gas costs $4.67 a gallon that means 18 cents goes to the federal government; 43 cents for the state. And if you live in Chicago, tack on another 33 cents for Cook County and the city.

That includes sales and motor fuel taxes, the latter of which goes to pay for roads and bridges and some of the capital projects.

Although increasingly that money is being diverted to pay for things like pensions.

Another factor that hits wallets particularly hard is the way all levels of government in Illinois levy sales tax on gasoline purchases. The state of Illinois alone charges 6.25 percent sales tax. Twenty years ago when gas was much cheaper that meant just pennies on the dollar. But now that can be an extra 20 cents or more per gallon since the higher the gas price, the more taxes you pay. "

http://www.wbez.org/news/why-does-chicago-still-have-such-high-gas-prices-107356

[biosurfer1]

Hugh, go to Safeway, Von's, anywhere they sell fuel gift cards and you can buy them with your credit card. Then they are treated the same as cash at the pump. Win-win

Originally Posted by Hugh R

OK, Sammy you may well be right, but ARCO charges I think $0.50 to use a debit card, and they don't take credit cards and I get miles on my United Visa for using it. Gotta think about the overall cost.

If we buy 20 gallons of gas/week between us, we'd save about $7/week at a 35 cent price differential. Call it $4/gallon for rounding, and its $320/month or about $3,800/year or 3,800 frequent flier miles. At $0.35/gallon savings, that is $336 per year in savings. $0.10 per Frequent flier mile is pretty cheap. Plus you got to figure in the $0.50 per debit card charge 2x per week (two cars), that is another $50 or so per year of cost.

[VINMAN]

For about few days last week , we had a few stations where diesel was actually cheaper than regular. That didn't last long....

[speeder]

Diesel has been the same or less than regular here for the last year, as long as you don't go to some rip-off station. It's $3.99 a gallon now at cheap stations. I've seen it for 80 cents more at random, expensive stations.

If the reason for Chicago prices isn't transport costs of the fuel, than I don't know why it's so much more than here when we have the same taxes, I think(?).

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Albertson's has $3 off on exchange tanks, propane.

According to our local propane re-filler, they have tested the exchange tanks. You are only getting about 60% fill.

[speeder]

Figures.

[BeyGon]

I don't know Sammy, I have filled up my 455 Buick at Arco and it pinged, 91 octane, I filled up my 383 Chevy at Arco and it pinged, 91 octane, I use Chevron and they don't ping, maybe my cars just don't know any better. Plus like I said in the earlier post, they charge to use a debt card. I never used Arco in my Porsche and don't use it in the Z3.
I drove by the Arco in Dana Point this afternoon and it was $4.25 for 91, no reason to go there.

[Flieger]

So... how high is the price in Chicago?

[gprsh924]

Within a mile of me on the north side of the city right now, it ranges from $3.99-$4.31 for 87. Up to $4.74 for 93.

I almost never buy gas in the city. It's about 20-30 cents cheaper in the suburbs and another 10+ cents cheaper in Wisconsin where I spend most weekends.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

Within a mile of me on the north side of the city right now, it ranges from $3.99-$4.31 for 87. Up to $4.74 for 93.

I almost never buy gas in the city. It's about 20-30 cents cheaper in the suburbs and another 10+ cents cheaper in Wisconsin where I spend most weekends.

Yep, I agree with this. You can gas up at an adjacent burb, and the price difference is noticeable. I gassed up in Skokie, IL I paid $4.35 for 93. Price changes usually occur on Tuesdays,

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

OK, Sammy you may well be right, but ARCO charges I think $0.50 to use a debit card, and they don't take credit cards and I get miles on my United Visa for using it. Gotta think about the overall cost.

If we buy 20 gallons of gas/week between us, we'd save about $7/week at a 35 cent price differential. Call it $4/gallon for rounding, and its $320/month or about $3,800/year or 3,800 frequent flier miles. At $0.35/gallon savings, that is $336 per year in savings. $0.10 per Frequent flier mile is pretty cheap. Plus you got to figure in the $0.50 per debit card charge 2x per week (two cars), that is another $50 or so per year of cost.

When I fill up at an ARCO they charge me 30 cents to use the debit card.

I really don't care where people buy their gas, I just all het up when people suggest you get what you pay for or that the 'spensive stuff is better than the cheaper stuff when it's all the same.

BTW yer math made my head explode.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

I don't know Sammy, I have filled up my 455 Buick at Arco and it pinged, 91 octane, I filled up my 383 Chevy at Arco and it pinged, 91 octane, I use Chevron and they don't ping, maybe my cars just don't know any better. Plus like I said in the earlier post, they charge to use a debt card. I never used Arco in my Porsche and don't use it in the Z3.
I drove by the Arco in Dana Point this afternoon and it was $4.25 for 91, no reason to go there.

I paid $3.63 at an Arco last week. They charged me 30 cents to use a debit card.

if there was an octane difference between arco premium and chevron premium the state of kalifornia would be throwin sumbudy in jail, and they monitor it pretty darn closely.

I carpool with a guy who buys 76 gas to full up his huge motorhome (at a much higher price). I asked him why he likes paying so much more, he said because of the 30 cents.
I 'splained to him that it's still way cheaper, the truth eventually came out that he simply doesn't like buying lower cost brands even if the product is zackly the same. But that only came out after his throwing out excuse after excuse after excuse.
He had been brainwashed and that was that.

It's the power of marketing.

Long time ago someone saw a shell or chevron commercial that said their gas was better and they believed it.
Then they saw arco's low pricing and said it couldn't be as good.
Someone else heard it and said yeah, you get what you pay for.
Someone else said they bought arco gas once and it all water.
Someone else said my car pings on it.
The urban legend spread like wildfire.

If arco gas cost 50 cents per gallon more than everyone elses, people would be saying that chevron gas was crap compared to arco.
The power of suggestion is strong, these are not the pings you're looking for. Move along......

If you don't like arco, cool. If you don't want to buy arco, it's your money.
But the gas is still the same.
The refining processes are still the same.
The technology is still the same.
the specifications are still the same.
There isn't anything that the BP (arco) refinery did that was any different than what anyone else did.

The only difference I can think of is the majority of the local arco gas is made from alaskan north slope oil, which is light and sweet (premium).
Most other local gas is made from heavier, more sour oil.
But it ends up being the same stuff.

BTW this has nothing to do with any connection to the arcvo brand, I've been saying this for decades when arco was a competitor.

2nd BTW: when the chevron richmond refinery burned up last year and was down for 8 months, where do you 'spose they got gas to sell at their local chevron gas stations?
it sure as hell wasn't from a chevron refinery.
They bought it from anyone else who was willing to sell it to them.

[Hugh R]

Ok, maybe its 30 cents to use the ATM. Sorry about the math, but my point was I get, and use frequent flier miles when I use my credit card. I use it for groceries as well and pay it off every month.

[foxpaws]

There is a game we play at work - called gas cheap...

Safeway gives you 10 cents off per gallon for each $100 you spend there. But, right now they are running a summer long promo that gives you 5x points for gift card purchases. Last week I needed something from Lowes and something from Amazon - I bought a $50 Lowes gift card and a $50 Amazon card from Safeway - earning me 50 cents per gallon off my gas. I can buy the gift cards with a credit card to get points - and I can still buy my gas with my credit card and not pay extra. We all do it at work - pretty good deal. And for my daily driver - Safeway gas is just fine. And I am like Hugh - just pay the card off every month.

Oh - regular, last I saw, was $3.36 here....

[Hugh R]

Fox

That's brilliant! I'm going to look into that.

I should really be more intelligent about the United Visa card, as it is, it earns me a domestic R/T coach ticket about once a year. Perfect for my wife to visit our daughter in NYC.

Last week I cashed in 150K miles for three tickets to NYC at Xmas, I still have 250K left over. My wife will use them to go to Oz next Spring ,if and when we do Pirates 5.

When I travel, I have to use the Corporate CC, and I don't get FF points for that, but I do get the FF miles with United, AA, whomever.

[red-beard]

Ralphs-Kroger all run the same deal. In fact, if I buy food at Ralphs in California and use my Kroger number, I get the point.

If they offer the deal, they also see some of the Visa gift cards. Those will work in the pumps. Buy a $100 gift card and use it at the pump! BTW, that is about the cost to fill my F250...

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Ok, maybe its 30 cents to use the ATM. Sorry about the math, but my point was I get, and use frequent flier miles when I use my credit card. I use it for groceries as well and pay it off every month.

And that's just fine. If you have brand loyalty or other beneficial reasons or cost savings, go with it.
My point was that the 'spensive gas is not higher quality than the less expensive stuff.

BTW the typical amount of "additive" that goes into gas is roughly a quart to 8000 gallons.
that's .003%.
in Kalifornia, even the additives are regulated. The quality, effectiveness, and amount are regulated.
If Joe Blow's station decided to cut corners and use less additives, it might lead to higher emissions and kaliforina won't stand for that.
in other parts of the country it isn't regulated as tightly but is still regulated by the EPA.

Is Cheap Gas Bad for Your Car?
Does Saving Pennies on Gas Put Your Car's Engine at Risk?
Published: 12/07/2012 - by Philip Reed, Senior Consumer Advice Editor

Don't Fear Cheap Gas

You can stop worrying about using cheap gas. Many experts say it's unlikely to hurt your car. More additives essentially afford more engine protection — but they also cost more.

Gasoline is expensive and you're looking for every way possible to save money at the pump. You already shy away from premium fuel, knowing that your car doesn't require it. You'd like to save a few pennies per gallon more by going to an off-brand gas station. But you can't get rid of the nagging fear: Is the cheap gas going to damage your car's engine?

Edmunds.com put this question to experts in several fields, including an automotive engineer at a major carmaker, gasoline manufacturers and two engineers with the American Automobile Association (AAA). It boils down to this: You can stop worrying about cheap gas. You're unlikely to hurt your car by using it.

Because of the advances in engine technology, a car's onboard computer is able to adjust for the inevitable variations in fuel, so most drivers won't notice a drop off in performance between different brands of fuel, from the most additive-rich gas sold by the major brands to the bare-bones stuff at your corner quickie mart.

Still, spending a few extra pennies per gallon might provide peace of mind to someone who just purchased a new car and wants to keep it as long as possible. People with older cars might not be as concerned about their engine's longevity. They can buy the less expensive gas and still be OK.

Steve Mazor, chief automotive engineer with the Automobile Club of Southern California, summed it up this way: "Buy the cheapest gas that is closest to you."

Recipes for Performance — at a Price
But this doesn't mean that all gas is the same, even though it starts out that way. The fuel from different filling stations comes from a common source: the "base gas" from a refinery. Workers there mix additives mandated by the Environmental Protection Agency into the base gas in order to clean a car's engine and reduce emissions. Then, the different gas companies — both off-brand and major brands — put their own additive packages in the gas to further boost both cleaning and performance.

A key difference is that the major brands put more additives in their gas and claim to have some secret ingredients. This extra shot of additives provides an additional level of cleaning and protection for your engine.

But is this extra helping of additives, which jacks up the price, really necessary? And, if you don't use more expensive, extra-additive gas, how soon will your engine's performance suffer?

"It's not like any of the fuels are totally junk," says John Nielsen, director of engineering and repair for the AAA. "If you buy gas from Bob's Bargain Basement gas station because that's all that's available, it won't hurt your car," he says.

The real difference is the amount of additives that are in the gas, Nielsen says. More additives essentially afford more protection — but they also cost more.

Some automakers and oil companies believe that the amount of government-required additives isn't enough to protect engines. They have created a Top Tier gasoline designation. It means that those gasoline brands sell fuels that provide more and better additives.

Nielsen recommends that drivers look in their car's owner's manual to see what the carmaker recommends and, when possible, follow that guideline. People who are still concerned about gasoline quality can ask a specific oil company if it has performed independent testing to substantiate its claims.

Selling the Secret Sauce in Gasoline
The major oil companies spend millions of dollars convincing buyers that their gas is superior by creating ads that feature smiling cartoon cars, lab-coated nerds and sooty engine valves. Buy Shell's nitrogen-enriched gas, for instance, and you won't get a buildup of "gunk" in your engine, company advertising promises.

Is all this just a marketing gimmick?

"I am a Ph.D. chemist, a nerdy guy who wears a white coat," says Jim Macias, Shell Oil Company's fuels marketing manager. "We really believe there are differences in fuels. We can see it, feel it and measure it."

Macias says the gunk caused by fuels with insufficient additives can foul fuel injectors and even trigger "Check Engine" lights in as few as 10,000 miles.

But not everyone is keen to talk about gasoline quality and whether additives really make the difference.

Edmunds sought comment from one well-known seller of low-price gas: Arco. Arco also often finds itself targeted as being a lower-quality product. BP, Arco's parent company, did not respond to Edmunds' interview request.

The American Petroleum Institute provided background comments about fuel additives and promised to provide an expert for an interview. The API spokesman never called back.

Finally, Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, an independent, nonprofit testing facility, also declined to comment on the question of gasoline quality.

The Skeptics and Their Tests
The Auto Club's Mazor was more forthcoming, and has some interesting results from a blind test he did on three samples of gasoline from both major and independent gas stations.

"We tested emissions, fuel economy and performance and we could not tell the difference," he says.

Mazor believes that the driving public has outdated notions about gas. Twenty years ago, only premium fuel had detergents in it. Back then, it was beneficial to occasionally buy a tank of high-test gas to clean the engine. Then, he says, "regulations were very lax and there was little enforcement. But all that has changed."

Likewise, Randy Stephens, chief engineer for Toyota's Avalon, isn't wholly convinced by the claims of engine protection afforded by higher-priced gas. He says fuel experts at his company study the effects of different brands of gas on the Toyota engines. Automotive engineers disassemble engines after 10,000 miles of running them on different brands of gas to see if there is a difference.

"Honestly, in the 10 years I've been in charge of Avalon, I've never seen one come back with any sort of deposit issue," Stephens says.

Nevertheless, Stephens admits to being "swayed" by ads that tout cleaning agents. Twice a year he adds a bottle of Chevron U.S.A. Inc.'s Techron — the same additive that's in Chevron gasoline — to the fuel tank of his personal car.

Is Cheap Gas Bad for Your Car?

[KNS]

Thanks for the info Sammy - and the link.

[NeedSpace]

I saw gas prices near me in NJ are $3.01 gal regular...hasn't dipped below the $3 level yet. Lowest I have seen in years.