Vettel

[motion]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Here's something I've often wondered, even though it may be silly:

Do some drivers in slower cars simply give up after the first 10 laps?

I've watched some drivers come from the back and pass cars and scrap and work their way up 12 or 15 places. Other drivers will fall back and just cruise to the end of the race, barely passing one or two other cars at most.

Maybe their cars really suck that bad, but it does seem that they say to heck with it and just concentrate on cruising and finishing the race without busting up the car.

Has anyone else wondered that, or should I put down the pipe?

I have to think that some of the drivers in the field have been told to "just bring the thing home." Some of the teams have small budgets and just cannot afford mistakes or altercations that result in shunted cars and blown engines. Its probably a good result for them to cruise around to the checkers and get the race long media exposure. Just guessing here, of course.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

And yes, you should put down the pipe.

Yer no fun.

[nota]

tyre management +fuel use rate+multi-race engine rules
all contribute to less then total flat out drives today
they have to pace to a fuel/tyre use delta time

[kevin993]

Originally Posted by motion

I believe that to be a true F1 hero, a champion must be respected, work well as a teammate, and be able to overcome adversarial conditions to win. Vettel has shown none of those traits. He's only shown that he's an arrogant, spoiled little pr*ck who can only win in a superior car. I don't hate the guy... just calling him out

Sorry Richard, but we part ways on this one. Drivers like Senna were never respected - they were feared. Many successful drivers never worked well as a teammate - they worked to own the team and get it to back them regardless of what it meant to their teammate co-driver. F1 has a long list of strong personalities that had the killer instinct to win. Where you see arrogant, I tend to see more confidence. To make it to F1 and survive, I have to think that a healthy sense of self is necessary for survival and as a means of getting the team to rally to support you. Isn't that part of what made Schumacher successful at Bennetton and Ferrari?

The "spoiled" characterization just doesn't seem like a fit to me. Perhaps in the right place and right time and made the best of a great car, but that doesn't mean spoiled. Anything I've read about his upbringing and respect for history and crew belies a "spoiled" label.

Obviously Alonso has plenty of talent and has been very impressive at Ferrari with weaker equipment. But he had a very checkered past at McLaren - balking Hamilton at every turn and trying to blackmail his team via spygate e-mails for better treatment. Respected? Work well as a teammate? Arrogant pr*ick? True F1 hero? He certainly is part of the F1 circus that makes it entertaining to follow.

The good news for us F1 fans is that Vettel is still young and getting challenged by new blood and new regulations. We'll be able to see how he adapts and handles the ebbs and flows of F1.

[nostatic]

It is interesting to see the different takes on driver comments and body language. For instance, I thought Vettel seemed pretty reasonable when interviewed after the race. The "tough luck" is easily explained away to heat of the moment, and in the post-race he didn't come off as being petulant.

otoh, I thought that Rosberg was really not happy - though Matchett didn't agree with me. To me Nico's body language was very uncomfortable, and he was not happy at all being number 2.

fwiw, the "team" exists in the garage and during practice. Once the race starts, the gloves are off. Kudos to Mercedes (so far) for letting them race. That likely will change when it starts getting real later in the season.

Riccardo is a much better driver than I thought he was. The other guys who I think are serious talents are Hulkenburg and Bottas. And yes, Alonso - the guy knows how to drive. I think Hamilton is a very good driver as well, he's just more held hostage by the car than some of the others.

[motion]

Ricciardo ahead again. Yes, I am glib

[kevin993]

Hmm... That Vettel guy seems to be doing pretty well in a post-Red Bull/post-Newey environment. Three wins in a MBZ dominated season so far, consistently faster than Kimi, and providing positive leadership in the team (as opposed to the corrosive impact of Alonso). Maybe he's an OK driver after all.

F1: Vettel passes Senna on all-time win list with Singapore triumph

F1 Racing News | Racer.com - F1: Vettel passes Senna on all-time win list with Singapore triumph

[Henry Schmidt]

Vettel seems very much at home at the Scuderia. The car seems to be developing in his favor and the team seems pleased with his progress.

We never saw that with Alonzo. The car was never good enough and it seems Alonzo was incapable of any positive input. Note that McLaren is keeping Button as they try to develop the Honda nightmare. Why? Could it be that Fred is only good at driving and lacks the ability to assist in the development? I don't know, it's just an observation.

I guess the change to Ferrari explains Vettel's lack luster 2014 season at Red Bull.
His bags were packed and he (Vettel) was already gone.
Rumor has it, Vettel was buying a Ferrari for his father at the factory before the 2014 season started. Coincidence? maybeeeeee.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Vettel seems very much at home at the Scuderia. The car seems to be developing in his favor and the team seems pleased with his progress.

We never saw that with Alonzo. The car was never good enough and it seems Alonzo was incapable of any positive input. Note that McLaren is keeping Button as they try to develop the Honda nightmare. Why? Could it be that Fred is only good at driving and lacks the ability to assist in the development? I don't know, it's just an observation.

I guess the change to Ferrari explains Vettel's lack luster 2014 season at Red Bull.
His bags were packed and he (Vettel) was already gone.
Rumor has it, Vettel was buying a Ferrari for his father at the factory before the 2014 season started. Coincidence? maybeeeeee.

kimi had a good race too.

kimi lacks the killer instinct i think.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

We never saw that with Alonzo. The car was never good enough and it seems Alonzo was incapable of any positive input. Note that McLaren is keeping Button as they try to develop the Honda nightmare. Why? Could it be that Fred is only good at driving and lacks the ability to assist in the development? I don't know, it's just an observation.

Actually, Alonso regards his period at Ferrari very highly, rating that period as the best in his career. I think the team was quite happy with him as well, as he elevated a mediocre car to a level other drivers couldn't. In his five year stint, he finished 2nd three tims and 4th once, during Red Bull's 4 year domination. Two of those years, he could have won the championship, they were that close. Nobody rated the Ferrari as anything as good as the Red Bull. His last year there, he and everybody else got their asses kicked by Mercedes but he still finished far ahead of his team-mate in probably the worst Ferrari built in 20 years.

I think there's no question that he had a lot of positive input into the development of the Ferrari, as it suited his driving style far more than Kimi's.

McLaren hasn't announced they are keeping Button, so I don't know where you get that notion. He's not even close in ability to Alonso. Had Brawn not built a loophole special in 2009, Jensen would never have won a title.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

kimi had a good race too.

kimi lacks the killer instinct i think.

Kimi had handling problems, so you didn't see his best. Singapore requires a massive amount of commitment and you don't have that with a tail-happy car.

Remember how Kimi drove early in his career, when he had a car he felt comfortable pushing past the limit. He was pretty ruthless. He just needs that sort of feeling in the car again and the Ferrari doesn't have it. His driving style meshes better with this year's car than last year's, but nobody thought last year's car suited him at all, even the management at Ferrari.

JR

[javadog]

In other news, Maldonato's wallet has been signed for one more year with Lotus. Ugh.

JR

[nota]

Originally Posted by javadog

In other news, Maldonato's wallet has been signed for one more year with Lotus. Ugh.

JR

well that depends on the frogs buying lotus
as everybody says they are broke

[yellowperil]

Originally Posted by nota

well that depends on the frogs buying lotus
as everybody says they are broke

Frogs?

[yellowperil]

Did I hear correctly that someone took a walk on the wild side at todays race? I was working and missed the race today. An unusual DNF also?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by yellowperil

Frogs?

Ze Frenchies...

Renault...

Originally Posted by yellowperil

Did I hear correctly that someone took a walk on the wild side at todays race? I was working and missed the race today. An unusual DNF also?

Yep and yep.

JR

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by javadog

Kimi had handling problems, so you didn't see his best. Singapore requires a massive amount of commitment and you don't have that with a tail-happy car.

Remember how Kimi drove early in his career, when he had a car he felt comfortable pushing past the limit. He was pretty ruthless. He just needs that sort of feeling in the car again and the Ferrari doesn't have it. His driving style meshes better with this year's car than last year's, but nobody thought last year's car suited him at all, even the management at Ferrari.

JR

thats true. the lotus a few years back was like that too. he'd give the leaders trouble with that car too.