Good Dog Gone Bad: Biting other dogs and now us.

[tedg04]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

I've started, and stopped, and started replying to this thread five times now. Each time I pause and can't finish.

I'm a huge dog lover, and pittie breed advocate. You'll find no greater defender of Dog, and particularly of bully breeds, on the planet.

But this one is really hard for me to opine. I have respect for the diligence you are putting into this, the strong, well-expressed opinions in the discussion.

But if a dog of mine was unreliable around people, I keep searching my heart to know what I would do. It's so easy for me to say, "I'll put him down." But one look into his eyes and knowing how close I am to dogs, I don't know how I could do it. Certainly it is a better fate to go down peacefully than under violent circumstances. And I'm with Vash that I could never forgive myself if I had a dog that in any manner traumatized a child.

But I wish I could say with confidence what I would do. My mind says one thing, my heart says it is unsure. I don't blame a dog for defending itself against an idiot adult. I do blame the dog owner for a repeat offense of any kind. I started to write many times that I would absolutely put the dog down. But when I searched my heart, it was less certain. I don't envy your situation nor ever hope to find myself in it. Good luck.

Perfectly stated and reflect my sentiments as well. My current dog (Dane/GShepherd mix) is completely trustworthy with kids - I can only hope my luck remains with future critters.

He he is with my [then] 9mo old niece. He gets all upset when she is over and doesn't come play with him now (she's 3 1/2 today).


And since that was a terrible picture of him, here he is waiting for his foyo celebrating his 9th birthday.

[Por_sha911]

Dogs With a History of Violence

The one bite rule provides that a dog bite victim can recover if the dog owner knew or should have known the dog had the propensity for violent, aggressive behavior yet didn't take the proper safety measures to prevent someone from being bitten, mauled, or killed. However, there are defenses to this rule such as if the victim was trespassing on the owner's property, or if the victim provoked the dog into attacking.

A victim of a dog with a previous history of aggression or of a dog whom a reasonable pet owner would have known could bite is entitled to full compensation for his or her injuries.

Dangerous Dog Law

Dangerous dogs also have their own classification under Pennsylvania's dangerous dog law, which protects both humans and other dogs who may have been attacked without provocation. Pennsylvania law enforcement authorities can charge the owners of dangerous dogs who have attacked with harboring a dangerous dog if the dog severely injured a person or pet on public or private property without provocation, was used in the commission of a crime, or if the dog has a history of attacking people or other domestic animals without provocation. The owners of such dogs are guilty of the misdemeanor crime of "harboring a dangerous dog."

Philadelphia Dog Bites: The Basics - FindLaw

[Por_sha911]

Last year, the average cost of a dog bite claim was $26,166, according to the Insurance Information Institute (III).

Remember to exercise extra care any time your dog is near a child. Kids make up half of all Americans who seek medical attention for dog bites, according to the CDC.

The consequences of such attacks can be heartbreaking.

“Children tend to get bitten more in the face because they are lower to the ground and at dog level,” Paul says.

The $30,000 Dog: How a Biting Pooch Costs You - Forbes

[Por_sha911]

That pet shrink sitting around singing kumbaya with fido isn't going to make you feel any better if your child is hurt or you get handed a lawsuit for fido biting someone.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by tedg04

Perfectly stated and reflect my sentiments as well. My current dog (Dane/GShepherd mix) is completely trustworthy with kids - I can only hope my luck remains with future critters.

My 4 year old son and our Lab are best buds. My son has a little scooter that he loves to ride on our back deck, she will simply walk around right behind him. They've probably put miles on our deck going in circles around our table. She tolerates a huge amount of (well intentioned) abuse from kids without objection.

[john70t]

For the OP, I'm thinking:

Step 1). Establish Alpha to dog.
Walk it regularly on your terms. You are the first out the door while dog sits and waits for you. You choose the path, the speed, reverse course often, make him sit at curbs, etc. Don't ever let him strain against leash or harness(use snap jerk correction).
Sit, come, wait, speak.
Reward instantly with praise and small pieces of biscuit.
Exercise him till he drops, and has his eyes on you waiting instruction.

Step 2). Associate child with good things.
Wear him out, then spend time with you and child.
Give him extra/better snacks or have child give him snacks.
Make him being around child turn into a reward.
"I like this strange thing because the alpha human gives me something extra when he's around"

[Steve Carlton]

Step 3). No bisquit when child gets bit.

[Bill Douglas]

I haven't read the other posts but...

a) Blast it with the .45

b) beat the sh it of it, and leave it outside for 24 hours so it doesn't even think of trying to be the boss around the place for the next year. A year later, first growl, beat the sh it out of it again.

c) have the vet put it down.

[javadog]

Wow, what a hateful attitude. Somebody piss in your Wheaties this morning or are you always this bad?

I pity any animal that lives near you...

JR

[tabs]

Originally Posted by javadog

Wow, what a hateful attitude. Somebody piss in your Wheaties this morning or are you always this bad?

I pity any animal that lives near you...

JR

I pity his family, let alone the doggy.

A we is civilised....

[scottmandue]

Strange how if one of us has a sick pet and looking at thousands in vet bills most of y'all are "it is just a pet put it down."

Now y'all are getting all mushy about a psyhco dog that can't be controlled... maybe one of you "dog whisperers" should step up and adopt this "problem child" and show us how it is done?

[J P Stein]

I am not a "dog person".
Dog persons impose their animal on their friends & neighbors.
A biting dog rates right up there with a communicable disease in my book.
Don't come around here with it.

My daughter has this huge young German shepard that is well on its way to becoming nutso. I've made my feelings on that well known. She doesn't give a crap...there may be a war brewing. She is smart enough not to bring that beast around me much.
I believe in the 25 cent solution....no adjustment for inflation or the ammo shortage.

[Rikao4]

gotta disagree with that..
folks / I stress quality of life ..
spend if need be and able..
but don't drag it on and out...
for avoidance of what needs and should be done..


most of the dog folks have suggested options..
which are few and TIME is short...

Rika

[javadog]

Strange how if one of us has a sick pet and looking at thousands in vet bills most of y'all are "it is just a pet put it down."



Now y'all are getting all mushy about a psyhco dog that can't be controlled... maybe one of you "dog whisperers" should step up and adopt this "problem child" and show us how it is done?

I have 3 rescues at my house already, so I'm doing my part.

JR

[scottmandue]

I AM a dog person... I have met several pit bulls that were total sweethearts... I raised a Doberman that a friend of a friend gave me also was a total sweetheart.

I'm just saying IMHO some dogs have a imbalance in their brain and no amount of training (or posting of cute doggy pictures) is going to change that, again IMHO.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I AM a dog person... I have met several pit bulls that were total sweethearts... I raised a Doberman that a friend of a friend gave me also was a total sweetheart.

I'm just saying IMHO some dogs have a imbalance in their brain and no amount of training (or posting of cute doggy pictures) is going to change that, again IMHO.

Truth. ^^

The problem is that over 99% of dog breeding decisions are made by dogs.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Strange how if one of us has a sick pet and looking at thousands in vet bills most of y'all are "it is just a pet put it down."

Now y'all are getting all mushy about a psyhco dog that can't be controlled... maybe one of you "dog whisperers" should step up and adopt this "problem child" and show us how it is done?

I will NOT tolerate a dog that can't be controlled (though I've never had one, nor been around any that "I" couldn't given some time and effort). I couldn't "adopt" one of my friend's "troubled pack" (and though he still has 6, some have been removed from his pack) for the same reason I couldn't adopt the OP's. Though I have none of my own, I'm just around too many kids with the youngest being 18 months old. I'm like Speeder...dawgs gotta be ABSOLUTELY trustworthy around children for me to consider it...otherwise the risk is just too great and I just won't go there. Now if I lived out on my 10 acres in the country...that'd be different.

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I AM a dog person... I have met several pit bulls that were total sweethearts... I raised a Doberman that a friend of a friend gave me also was a total sweetheart.

I'm just saying IMHO some dogs have a imbalance in their brain and no amount of training (or posting of cute doggy pictures) is going to change that, again IMHO.

Both sets of my grandparents were "country folk" and were "old school"...a dog kills a chicken, they were humanely dispatched with a 12 ga 'cause once they've done it once.... They simply didn't have much choice (with 7 kids each and several farm dogs) to live any other way....and didn't. I absolutely LOVE dogs, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. As Speeder also said...putting a dog down is a peaceful as them going to sleep (I personally couldn't "shoot" one)....it's only hard on us (and I've always held mine in my arms, and shed some tears as I take 'em across the "bridge"). As intelligent as dogs are, what about pigs/hogs? Though I'm decades removed from farming life....my cousins had to feed their "pet" hogs...knowing they'd be on their plates the following winter. I love animals...all of them, but their "place" is so far below humans (ESPECIALLY children) that it's just a "no brainer" to me, but I've been attempting to offer suggestions for the OP and his situation. We are all different with various backgrounds, and he was sincerely looking for options that will "work" for him...YMMV.

[RacerX1166]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Strange how if one of us has a sick pet and looking at thousands in vet bills most of y'all are "it is just a pet put it down."

Now y'all are getting all mushy about a psyhco dog that can't be controlled... maybe one of you "dog whisperers" should step up and adopt this "problem child" and show us how it is done?

Uh, yeah, show you how it's done. Maybe we could talk about one of the homeless dogs I've worked with and successfully gotten adopted. The German Shepherd with stranger issues? Or the other German Shepherd with aggression problems? How about the hound that didn't know how to be a dog and interact with humans until I worked with him for several weeks? Maybe even my own border collie who had stranger issues and resource guarding problems when I first rescued her? I could go on if you'd like.

And why would one of us have to adopt the dog if the owner plans to take appropriate steps toward behavior modification? If the OP were anywhere near me, I'd volunteer my time to work with the dog, no hesitation.

Ah screw it, let's go with the genius who suggested the .45...we really need to make sure he never takes responsibility for anything more sentient than a house plant.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by javadog

Wow, what a hateful attitude. Somebody piss in your Wheaties this morning or are you always this bad?

I pity any animal that lives near you...

JR

Sorry but this dog is going to kill someone. The warnings are already there. To ignore them is negligence. Just for your interest sake... a couple of guys got jailed around here because their dog that they knew was dangerous attacted someone.

The rest of your crybaby comments I won't both replying to.

[911SauCy]

FWIW...UPDATE:

As I originally thought, her agitation toward my wife and I went away as soon as we left the in-laws and got comfortable in the new house. Drunk, loud and arrogant step-dad was the issue.

That being said, the dog had exhibited unprovoked aggression toward Saucy Jr and has since been segregated (with the other dog so were not singling her out and really pissing her off) away from the baby when he's around.

I've been very diligently working to get this critter into an adoption agency as I know she is a great animal for an adult home. However, after contacting 9...yes, 9 of these places I've been seeing a very disheartening pattern of an immediate "sorry, we're not taking dogs at this time"

If our last couple efforts don't work, we're going to bring the 'ole girl to the CT Humane Society. They're no kill and have priority in the agencies I've been trying to work directly.